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-   -   Techical Foul-Ejection (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/30625-techical-foul-ejection.html)

Dan_ref Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Yes, Dan should check out the great taste of decaf. Yes, Dan needs a Midol. While I agree that officials -- and probably ex-officials -- should not berate other officials on the floor, if somebody asks you "is that the rule?", your options are limited. Lie, answer the question honestly and diplomatically, or feign death until the other person leaves. I respectfully opt for the honest and diplomatic approach.

Having said that, in answer to the original question of whether an elbow to the head is an automatic ejection, I believe that the NBA has a rule that is close to that. Maybe the official works some pro-am ball and got confused.
Coupla things here Scappy.

1. In my experience when I'm sitting with the fannies and am asked my opinion on something that happened on the floor there is only 1 answer that immediately ends the conversation:

"Sorry friend, I wasn't looking. I have no idea what just happened."

2. As we all know "automatic" is not just a rule book term. There are some things that result in "automatic" calls. Not found in the rule book but just as valid. While I don't agree necesarily that it's a good thing to have "automatic" calls in your bag of tricks, it might be that this official referee'ing a JH contest might have been told by a mentor that elbows to the head are automatic ejections.

Since the OP keeps changing his story I suppose we'll never know what actually happened.

edit...

and btw, decaf will give you cancer. It's true, I read it on the internet.

lpneck Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Go back and read the first post again. And try comprehending it this time. Shave-tail told the father <b>during</b> the game that you could only toss somebody if a punch was thrown. At that time, shave-tail didn't have a clue what the actual call was; he was just, plain and simple, second-guessing the official with no actual knowledge of what the call was. Shave-tails statement to the father <b>during</b> the game was also completely wrong, by rule also.

That's why shave-tail got flamed. That's why if shave-tail was an official, shave-tail woulda been in deep doo-doo if he had been caught doing that.

Most officials are aware of that.
Since I struggle with reading comprehension, can you please indicate to me where it specifies in the OP that shave-tail made any statements about the call during the game.

Scrapper1 Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Chess Ref's answer was that his "higher-up" said that you can call a technical foul on anyone at any time. That statement is wrong.
You are incorrect. The higher-up's statement is correct. Anyone can be charged with an unsporting technical foul at any time during the officials' jurisdiction.

Quote:
You can't call a technical foul for live-ball contact. Sez so right in the rules.
But that's NOT what Chess Ref's higher-up said, according to Chess Ref's post. The higher-up made no reference to live ball contact in Chess Ref's post. That was my only point. I didn't want somebody to come in and see that and think, "oh, there are times in the game where I can't call a technical foul?". Of course you can, if it's an unsporting foul.

Again, sorry for confusing you with the obvious. I know what he was getting at and you know what he was getting at. But that doesn't mean that everybody will get it.

You CAN call a technical foul on anyone at anytime during the officials' jurisdiction, if it's an unsporting foul.

Raymond Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpneck
Since I struggle with reading comprehension, can you please indicate to me where it specifies in the OP that shave-tail made any statements about the call during the game.
I'm only posting as a fact-checker, no opinion is offered than it appeared the original post was using a chronological format:

Quote:
I told the father that the only time I ever called this was when a punch was thrown (ejection).

After the game the father when to the official....calmly and asked what happened? The official said that the player (his son) elbowed the player in the face and that is an automatic ejection. The official said it was not intentional or flagrant and felt sorry about calling it, but any time this happens ejection automatic.

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shave-tail
I was watching my son play a junior high game. <font color = red>Early in the game</font> a shot goes up and the lead official stops the game calling a Technical Foul and Ejected a player for an elbow to the face.

<font color = red>I told the father that the only time I ever called this was when a punch was thrown (ejection).

After the game</font> the father when to the ......
The OP- for lpneck.

'Nuff said.

Scrapper1 Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by armymanjones
I understand I just wanted to make the point that any contact that is made during a live ball is not classified under the T foul provision, no matter how severe or if you feel it is unsporting. Even fighting is classified as flagrant fouls which carry DQ but is not a T.
We're on the same page, ArmyDude. :)

tomegun Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
Are this many officials really calling technical fouls for contact during live ball?
Wow, I had to quote myself! :)

I have been reading (on this board) and listening (in my local area) about officials calling technical fouls on contact during live balls. So my question was asking if this is happening a lot. I ask that because it shouldn't be! We are talking about contact during a live ball. Please don't muddy the waters by adding unsportsmanlike act into the equation. Make your own equation for that!

Scrapper1 Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
1. In my experience when I'm sitting with the fannies and am asked my opinion on something that happened on the floor there is only 1 answer that immediately ends the conversation:

"Sorry friend, I wasn't looking. I have no idea what just happened."
You choose option 1: lie. I choose option 2. I say tomato, you say STFU.

Also, part of the consideration is that when I sit in the stands to watch a game, I am almost never just sitting with fans that I don't know. I'm with other refs or with friends. So I find it harder to lie to those folks. I know they know I know the rules, so they naturally ask me for clarifications. I don't think I've ever been asked by a complete stranger for a rules interp while sitting in the stands.

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
You are incorrect. The higher-up's statement is correct. Anyone can be charged with an unsporting technical foul at any time during the officials' jurisdiction.

But that's NOT what Chess Ref's higher-up said, according to Chess Ref's post. The higher-up made no reference to live ball contact in Chess Ref's post. That was my only point. I didn't want somebody to come in and see that and think, "oh, there are times in the game where I can't call a technical foul?". Of course you can, if it's an unsporting foul.

Again, sorry for confusing you with the obvious. I know what he was getting at and you know what he was getting at. But that doesn't mean that everybody will get it.

You CAN call a technical foul on anyone at anytime during the officials' jurisdiction, if it's an unsporting foul.
Lah me, Scrappy. Chess Ref was <b>responding</b> to Tomegun's very <b>specific</b> question about live-ball contact being a technical foul. That's what Chess Ref asked his higher-up....i.e. "if live-ball contact could be a technical foul". The higher-up's reply to that very <b>specific</b> question was that you could call a technical foul on anybody at any time. Nobody ever mentioned an "unsporting foul" at any time but <b>YOU</b>! Not Chess Ref and not his higher-up. That's the point I'm trying to make. Chess Ref's higher-up is wrong.

You really need to switch from decaf to a <b>man's</b> coffee, like Dan. Might open your eyes.:D

Dan_ref Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
You choose option 1: lie. I choose option 2. I say tomato, you say STFU.

Also, part of the consideration is that when I sit in the stands to watch a game, I am almost never just sitting with fans that I don't know. I'm with other refs or with friends. So I find it harder to lie to those folks. I know they know I know the rules, so they naturally ask me for clarifications. I don't think I've ever been asked by a complete stranger for a rules interp while sitting in the stands.
Ahhh...a philosophical discussion in which you take the part of the absolutist. I love those...why don't you take an absolutist whack at this:

You find it hard to lie to friends and family? How old was your daughter when she stumbled onto the cold hard truth that there really is no Santa Claus?

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
I know they know I know the rules
Yabut.....<b>we</b> don't know that.

Another hanging curveball, Dan.:D

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
How old was your daughter when she stumbled onto the cold hard truth that there really is no Santa Claus?
There is no Santa Claus?:eek:

http://www.1000smilies.com/animated/crying.gif

rainmaker Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Ahhh...a philosophical discussion in which you take the part of the absolutist. I love those...why don't you take an absolutist whack at this:

You find it hard to lie to friends and family? How old was your daughter when she stumbled onto the cold hard truth that there really is no Santa Claus?
Been watching Everybody Loves Raymond?

Dan_ref Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Been watching Everybody Loves Raymond?
Let me answer this way:

Not EVERYBODY loves Raymond. :rolleyes:

rainmaker Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Let me answer this way:

Not EVERYBODY loves Raymond. :rolleyes:
But this discussion about telling everybody the exact truth was just on, including the part about telling the daughter about Santa. Thought maybe you were, uh, borrowing...


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