Damn, now I realize why I have a self-esteem problem, I thought I WAS universally loved. :(

As you know I have no objection to, as you put it, borrowing, from other sources.

But I do not watch that unfunny annoying Raymond thing.

Dan, now you've done it. You've gone and made the Jurassic one cry.

"According to Jim," now there's some funny comedy.

:D

Nice.

If the live ball act (an elbow to the insert-body-part-here) was deemed to be "fighting" by the official, would it not be a (flagrant) technical foul?

10-3-9 Player Techincal - A player shall not: Be charged with fighting.

4-18 Fighting - Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live.

And doesn't this contradict 4-19-4?

4-19-4 A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is a flagrant act.

If it's fighting during live ball action, call it a flagrant personal. The question is, with a flagrant personal and a flagrant technical, can you offset the penalties and not shoot the free throws?

Fine, you know that's what he was talking about and I know that's what he was talking about, but Chess Ref didn't say in his post that's what he was talking about.

You and I both know the relevant rules. I'm not arguing with you over the rule. I am simply pointing out that an official CAN call a technical foul on anybody at anytime. I am simply pointing that out for the 2% of people that might stroll through this thread and NOT understand what you and I know about the situation.

When taken at their face value, the way they are presented in Chess Ref's post, the words spoken by the higher-up are true. When applied ONLY to the more narrow context of live ball contact (which was NOT done in Chess Ref's post), then we can say that you can't assess a technical foul for that particular infraction. You can still give a T, but not for that particular infraction.

Methinks that if the flagrant personal and flagrant techincal were the two parts of a double foul, than we would go to POI. If they were the two parts of a false double foul, than we would shoot free throws, however accordingly.
Yes?

I don't think I took that part. There are several options. I listed the relevant ones that I could think of. Your response fit quite naturally (without any help from me) into option 1. Are there options that I didn't list?

You may laugh at this, but I had a really hard time perpetuating the Santa thing. My wife really loved how excited my daughter would get, so I went along; but I really didn't like it and I didn't participate in it. In fact, I would take my daughter with me to pick out my wife's stocking gifts. This made my wife mad, but it was my attempt at being honest, as far as I could.

I'm not, and I never have (knock-knock on the desk), but I would for a live ball act of fighting or contact by a non-player (i.e. recent threads talking about a member of bench personnel intentionally interfering by contacting a player).

I'm talking specifically about a flagrant personal (he's starting a fight while the ball is live) and the flagrant T for fighting back.

"Me thinks danref protests too much"....The overly strong initial response from him suggests a sich that happened to him once as the floor official--a possible public comment from a fellow official that showed him up (ala his "Rule #1")--a HTBT, I guess...
He is right that a fellow ref never comments negatively on anothers actions, but an ex-ref is just another "fan", and I dont listen to fans, so say all you want, you bought a ticket....
And as an official watching as a fan, if asked a Q from friends or family, I answer it. BFD if someone else doesnt like it- - the world hasnt ended. Maybe decaf is the answer.....

Then part two of my answer - a simple, yet slightly more complicated than the typical, false double foul. Shoot 'em up, however accordingly.

Simple scenario, A1 gets the ball stolen by B1. A1 is having a bad night and yells "You F***ing Su*k" towards B1 loud enough for you to hear.

1. What would the proper call be?
2. Could this be an unsporting technical during a live-ball?
3. What is the penalty?

Not trying to prove a point, I'm just trying to further my education. This whole discussion just raised some questions.

I'll sit down and be quiet now.

Thanks