Warning/T for delay

[missinglink]

conflicting language problem
4-47-2: .....for huddle by either team "and" contact with the free thrower
10-1-5c...........contact with the free thrower "or" a huddle............

The warning for delay section uses "and" while the penalty section 10 cites "or".
1. Which is it?
2. Can someone describe the "contact with the free thrower" game action that would precipitate the warning or penalty?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by missinglink

conflicting language problem
4-47-2: .....for huddle by either team "and" contact with the free thrower
10-1-5c...........contact with the free thrower "or" a huddle............

The warning for delay section uses "and" while the penalty section 10 cites "or".
1. Which is it?
2. Can someone describe the "contact with the free thrower" game action that would precipitate the warning or penalty?

The text book example is when someone steps in and slaps hands with the free thrower. I don't get testy unless this action truly delays the game, such as when it happens just as I'm about to bounce the ball to the freethrower and I have to hold it back. Used to be, some teams always had all their players step in and slap hands with the free thrower. When the Fed cracked down on this, it really did change, and now it's maybe one or two players. Still, if it's one and then the other, and it really does hold back the game, I'll warn quietly once, and then get down to business. I still don't sweat it if it happens while subs are coming in.

[Time2Ref]

I don't think that the coaches are telling the players to do this. On the other hand, I don't think the coaches are telling the players NOT to do it.

If it bothers you, just mention it to the captains in the pre-game. Then, if it happens in the game, you can stop it as soon as you see one of the players moving towards the free-thrower.

I don't think the players even want to do this anyway. It started as a congratulations for a sucessful free-throw. That seemed to put extra pressure on someone who misses the first shot by "its absence". Now, they think they need to do it after every shot.

So, to answer your question: Don't warn or penalize it. Just let them know you aren't going to allow it.

As rainmaker pointed out, it's not a big deal unless it is delaying the game.

Plus, as you mentioned in the OP (4-47-2 & 10-1-5), the NFHS doesn't want this happening.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Time2Ref

So, to answer your question: Don't warn or penalize it. Just let them know you aren't going to allow it.

I ain't the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but if you tell them that you aren't gonna allow it, aren't you warning them? Or are you talking about an official warning placed in the score book?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Time2Ref

I don't think that the coaches are telling the players to do this. On the other hand, I don't think the coaches are telling the players NOT to do it.

If it bothers you, just mention it to the captains in the pre-game. Then, if it happens in the game, you can stop it as soon as you see one of the players moving towards the free-thrower.

I don't think the players even want to do this anyway. It started as a congratulations for a sucessful free-throw. That seemed to put extra pressure on someone who misses the first shot by "its absence". Now, they think they need to do it after every shot.

So, to answer your question: Don't warn or penalize it. Just let them know you aren't going to allow it.

As rainmaker pointed out, it's not a big deal unless it is delaying the game.

Plus, as you mentioned in the OP (4-47-2 & 10-1-5), the NFHS doesn't want this happening.

I really think that huddling of defensive/offensive players is getting out of hand. We need to step in and let them know we are not going to allow it...ONCE. If they do it again give them a warning, so actually we have told them twice, so when we whack them we have done our job. The warnings are in the book as tools for us to use, use them. These huddles are delaying the game, that is a fact.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I really think that huddling of defensive/offensive players is getting out of hand.

Huddling and shirts hanging out and bicep bands are ruining basketball as we know it.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Huddling and shirts hanging out and bicep bands are ruining basketball as we know it.

You forgot shorts hanging halfway down their butts.

[Adam]

while we're at it, get them a kleenex. there's mucous on the nose.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

while we're at it, get them a kleenex. there's mucous on the nose.

But that's not illegal, so I don't see any rules support for getting a cleansing tissue (so to speak). I mean, is it in the official's manual?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

But that's not illegal, so I don't see any rules support for getting a cleansing tissue (so to speak). I mean, is it in the official's manual?

It's all about game management.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

But that's not illegal, so I don't see any rules support for getting a cleansing tissue (so to speak). I mean, is it in the official's manual?

No, it snot.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by missinglink

conflicting language problem
4-47-2: .....for huddle by either team "and" contact with the free thrower
10-1-5c...........contact with the free thrower "or" a huddle............

The warning for delay section uses "and" while the penalty section 10 cites "or".
1. Which is it?

In this case, the "and" in 4-47-2 is not conditional, it's conjunctive.

Meaning: 4-47-2 is not saying both conditions must be met, it's providing a list of actions that fall under this rule.