The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2006, 02:17pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Rational Opinion

HawkEyeCubP: Although I disagree with you regarding the earring worn during warmups, I really like the "style" of your post. You start out by indicating that this is your opinion, not a directive from the ghost of Dr. Naismith, you offer complete rule citations, so I don't have to go into the next room, get out my official's bag, and get my Rule Book, and you offer further rule citations that clarify rule citations that you've already offered. Not only that, you seem to offer the members of the Forum information, in the form of rule citations and opinions, in a rational, completely non-judgemental way, no name calling, no put downs.

Like many others on this Forum, I've missed Chuck. I don't think that he can be replaced, but you, and a few others, have come real close. Please keep on contributing to this Forum. I look forward to your future threads and posts.
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2006, 02:29pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Well, it's not the first time I've changed my mind. From now on, I'm catching this while they get off the team bus.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2006, 02:39pm
(Something hilarious)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: These United States
Posts: 1,162
More of my opinion:

Jurassic - Thank you for the Case Play. I see where I'm wrong regarding the earring example (and therefore, logically, anything safety related). But I'm sticking to my guns on the uniform stuff.

To go along with JimGolf's point - I've included the only times the uniform rules refer to either "team members" or "players." They are as follows:

3-3-14 The American flag may be worn on the team shirt provided it does not exceed 2 x 3 inches and does not interfere with the visibility of the player's number.

3-3-15 A team jersey designed to be worn inside the pants/skirt shall be tucked inside the pants/skirt and the pants/skirt shall be above the hips and worn properly. A player not conforming to this uniform policy shall be directed to leave the game. A team member shall not remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt in the visual confines of the playing area. See 10-3-7h and 10-4-1h for penalty.


Going along with 4-34 (def. of "player"), the first two places above where "player" is used should, then, only be enforced when they are actually players, and not simply team members, logically.

And I can use this logic because I don't live in the state Jurassic mentioned.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2006, 05:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 622
Have any of you walk in the hallways at a high school recently? You would be hard pressed to find a dozen males with their shirts tucked in. 30 years ago, you would have not seen a dozen with their shirts hanging out.

The rule is going to continue to be a nag at us officials until the style changes again.

If we make players tuck there jerseys in, should we make officials use some sort of strapping device for their whistle? Holding the whistle in their hand is a style, trend, whatever ... just like kids and the way they wear their clothes.
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2006, 06:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
The NCHSAA requires us to enforce the shirt tuck rule during warm-ups. The rule reads, "A team jersey designed to be worn inside the pants/skirt shall be tucked inside the pants/skirt and the pants/skirt shall be above the hips and worn properly." It does not say "during the game," it does not say "player." Just because the next statement explains what to do during the game, that doesn't mean that it doesn't apply before the game.

If you or your state association chooses to interpret the rule to mean during the game only, great. But the way the rule is worded, it can certainly be interpreted to mean the jersey must be tucked when the participant is on the court. Choose how you want to interpret but don't be critical because someone else interprets it differently. It's not that big of a deal.

Before anyone asks, I couldn't care less what happens while they're sitting on the bench. But when they're on the floor, it needs to be tucked. If he comes to the table, it'd better be tucked, otherwise he's not coming in. For me, the NFHS doesn't want jewelry or a baseball cap being worn during warm-ups, so why wouldn't they want everyone properly equipped in all facets during warm-ups?

I really don't see the big fuss. It's preventive officiating. I've never run into a problem asking a someone to tuck in his/her jersey during warm-ups. In fact, every time I've ever had a coach hear the request, he/she has back me 100%. Start it before the game and you won't have a problem during the game.

I'm done.

EDIT: BillyMac, turn on your private messaging.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith

Last edited by BktBallRef; Sat Dec 30, 2006 at 06:37pm.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 30, 2006, 10:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 60
Thumbs up Pre-Game it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
Boys JV game. During FT administration official tells player to tuck in shirt from about 20 feet away. Tells him again. Tells him again. Issues delay of game warning.

Player says, "Huh?" He never heard the official. IPODs are ruining the kids' hearing, LOL.
Hence the importance of a doing a pre-game with the coaches. I always tell them in advance that we won't let the players come in if there shirts are untucked. This way the coaches won't blame us for not letting them in. They know from the very beggining that we wouldn't let them come in.

I as well would NOT give a delay of game warning. Just throw that issue in the pre-game and it'll be taken care of!
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 31, 2006, 12:40pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo
If we make players tuck there jerseys in, should we make officials use some sort of strapping device for their whistle? Holding the whistle in their hand is a style, trend, whatever ... just like kids and the way they wear their clothes.
Johnny, there are reasons other than style for this. Some guys (who have posted on your other thread) have told you the practical benefits.

Why do some choose a smitty and others use a noose? It's style; should we choose one and make everyone go with it to eliminate style?

Style itself is not bad; it's not like they're out there wearing pink and green stripes. It's subtle.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 04:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NH
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
I believe that MASS has a mouthguard rule. I don't know if wearing the mouthguard during warm-ups is mandatory also though. Maybe someone from MASS can chime in here.
Sorry, I forget that the mouthguard is state-regulated. In NH, players must wear mouthguards during any school sponsored (or NHIAA regulated) sport, including practices and school summer ball.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 05:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston area
Posts: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
I believe that MASS has a mouthguard rule. I don't know if wearing the mouthguard during warm-ups is mandatory also though. Maybe someone from MASS can chime in here.
The full language of the rule in Massachusetts: Mouth guards are required for all basketball players while on the court.

We are also told:
• Mouth protectors must be worn in all practices and games. This includes pre-season scrimmages, jamborees as well as the state tournament.
• Mouth protectors are required of all participants at all levels of interscholastic competition (Freshman, Junior Varsity, Varsity).


Administration on the Court:
• In the event a player intentionally participates without a mouthguard, the game official will require that the player be replaced at the next dead ball whistle. The removed player may not re-enter until after the clock has started and a substitution opportunity occurs.

I do not require mouth guards to be worn during warm up. Most players wear them, although many tuck them under their shirt strap until they are playing.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 05:33pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef
I do not require mouth guards to be worn during warm up.
Does that mean that they're not mandatory during warm-ups? Or that the subject just hasn't ever really been clarified one way or t'other?
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 06:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston area
Posts: 615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Does that mean that they're not mandatory during warm-ups? Or that the subject just hasn't ever really been clarified one way or t'other?
I cited the exact wording of the Massachusetts rule.

It has not been further clarified by the MIAA nor by my association interpreter. I take the language to mean "while the ball is live" and not during warmups. I know it also says they must be worn in practice....but that is obviously up to the coach, not the official.
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 08:47pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef
I cited the exact wording of the Massachusetts rule.

It has not been further clarified by the MIAA nor by my association interpreter. I take the language to mean "while the ball is live" and not during warmups. I know it also says they must be worn in practice....but that is obviously up to the coach, not the official.
Iow, it's basically the same as the FED jewelry rule. It can be interpreted either way.

I'm kinda surpised that the MIAA didn't clarify it like N.C. did. It's a whole bunch easier on all officials if you can get a uniform ruling to apply.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ASA Shirt mo99 Softball 22 Thu May 25, 2006 01:58pm
Shirt Tucked Snake~eyes Basketball 34 Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:47pm
What Shirt? bigdill52 Softball 11 Thu Apr 15, 2004 07:46pm
Shirts tucked in A Dutch Ref Basketball 22 Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:51am
Keep shirts tucked John Schaefferkoetter Basketball 11 Fri Oct 04, 2002 09:17pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1