Time out positions - two man crew

[RefLarry]

Please verify the correct mechanic for a (two-man crew) time out.I am an IAABO referee.

In a two-man crew, the administering official stays at the throw-in spot and the other official stands on the division (half-court line) either close to the opposite side of the court (full/60) or close to the table (30).

[Drizzle]

NFHS Official's Manual:

For 30-sec, each official goes to top of each key
For full, each official goes to the block opposite the benches.

For two man crews, no official stands at the throw in spot.

[Mark Dexter]

Larry - for IAABO mechanics, you're right. The non-inbounds spot official should be right at the edge of the center restraining circle, either close to the table or close to the opposite side of the court.

[Nevadaref]

This is a mechanics difference between IAABO and NFHS. Chuck made me aware of this a few years ago. Just FYI.

[Adam]

Really? Here, we apparently do the NFHS version, even though we're IAABO. Since I'm still feeling my way around, I've just watched to see how things are done. I didn't realize there was a difference between IAABO and NFHS on this.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really? Here, we apparently do the NFHS version, even though we're IAABO. Since I'm still feeling my way around, I've just watched to see how things are done. I didn't realize there was a difference between IAABO and NFHS on this.

I think IAABO has it right, BTW. This is the old NFHS mechanic, if I remember correctly.

I'm always proactive in getting this information to an assistant during a timeout, but it wold be a lot easier to simply put an official there and let the other official notify the benches of the first horn, etc.

[mj]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I think IAABO has it right, BTW. This is the old NFHS mechanic, if I remember correctly.

I'm always proactive in getting this information to an assistant during a timeout, but it wold be a lot easier to simply put an official there and let the other official notify the benches of the first horn, etc.

Agree. It never fails...you can point to the spot of the throw-in for half of the timeout and as soon as you don't, that's when they ask "where you gonna take it in". GRR

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I think IAABO has it right, BTW. This is the old NFHS mechanic, if I remember correctly.

I'm always proactive in getting this information to an assistant during a timeout, but it wold be a lot easier to simply put an official there and let the other official notify the benches of the first horn, etc.

Lemme throw this out there, Rich, being a tad grumpy this a.m.........as usual.

Why don't we go back to the real old mechanic? Use the warning horns for what they're damnwell supposed to be ----> a warning horn. All the current mechanic is doing is shifting the onus onto the officials and away from where it should be-the benches. They can hear the horns; all they do now is ignore them until us babysitters go and ask them if they feel like playing yet. Everybody, and I mean everybody, ignores the first horn. And then if you do follow the resuming-play procedure, they'll whine at you, saying that they didn't hear your warning. Every TO now turns out to be 10-15 seconds longer than what they should be. Way back, we used to whistle and say "Let's go" at the first horn, and then whistle at the second horn, give 'em a few(2-3) seconds to get moving, and if they didn't start out, we'd either put the ball down or hand it to the thrower- depending on which team felt like ignoring us. Of course, if they did move we'd give them a little time to get into position. The coaches knew that we were gonna do this, so they didn't try to pretend that we don't exist- like they do now.

The rule book says that at the first warning horn "the players shall prepare to be ready to resume play". Somehow, over the passage of time, this requirement has shifted to the final horn instead and we allow it.

Thoughts anybody?

[Tim C]

"Thoughts anybody?"

Thanks for the invite! I worked high school and college basketball for 20 years and we did it EXACTLY as JR has noted . . .

It worked well . . . so the NFHS dropped it.

Regards,

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lemme throw this out there, Rich, being a tad grumpy this a.m.........as usual.

Why don't we go back to the real old mechanic? Use the warning horns for what they're damnwell supposed to be ----> a warning horn. All the current mechanic is doing is shifting the onus onto the officials and away from where it should be-the benches. They can hear the horns; all they do now is ignore them until us babysitters go and ask them if they feel like playing yet. Everybody, and I mean everybody, ignores the first horn. And then if you do follow the resuming-play procedure, they'll whine at you, saying that they didn't hear your warning. Every TO now turns out to be 10-15 seconds longer than what they should be. Way back, we used to whistle and say "Let's go" at the first horn, and then whistle at the second horn, give 'em a few(2-3) seconds to get moving, and if they didn't start out, we'd either put the ball down or hand it to the thrower- depending on which team felt like ignoring us. Of course, if they did move we'd give them a little time to get into position. The coaches knew that we were gonna do this, so they didn't try to pretend that we don't exist- like they do now.

The rule book says that at the first warning horn "the players shall prepare to be ready to resume play". Somehow, over the passage of time, this requirement has shifted to the final horn instead and we allow it.

Thoughts anybody?

Got my vote JR!

I agree with Tim C. - IMHO it wasn't broke, so why in the blazes did NFHS decide to "fix it".

[Adam]

I will say this, timeouts are not extended around here like they were back in Iowa. It is a bigger deal. Last week, on the 2nd horn, visiting team started coming out. I gave them extra time because they were moving. Home coach had a minor fit at half time and told me the ball should have been put down. Go figure.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Why don't we go back to the real old mechanic? Use the warning horns for what they're damnwell supposed to be ----> a warning horn. All the current mechanic is doing is shifting the onus onto the officials and away from where it should be-the benches. They can hear the horns; all they do now is ignore them until us babysitters go and ask them if they feel like playing yet. Everybody, and I mean everybody, ignores the first horn. And then if you do follow the resuming-play procedure, they'll whine at you, saying that they didn't hear your warning. Every TO now turns out to be 10-15 seconds longer than what they should be. Way back, we used to whistle and say "Let's go" at the first horn, and then whistle at the second horn, give 'em a few(2-3) seconds to get moving, and if they didn't start out, we'd either put the ball down or hand it to the thrower- depending on which team felt like ignoring us. Of course, if they did move we'd give them a little time to get into position. The coaches knew that we were gonna do this, so they didn't try to pretend that we don't exist- like they do now.

The rule book says that at the first warning horn "the players shall prepare to be ready to resume play". Somehow, over the passage of time, this requirement has shifted to the final horn instead and we allow it.

Thoughts anybody?

We are not going to put the ball in play on the 1st horn anyway. Even if the teams are out there and ready to play, the ball doesn't go back into play until the 2nd horn. So officially, the timeout is not over until the 2nd horn.

Actually JR, at a girls 5 grade game many years ago, I did just this. Put the ball in play while the other team was still in the huddle and the other team scored and they won by one point. The coach was so mad at me, and the look he gave me was like I was cheating. So I decided to not be a hard-liner on this subject and do a little preventive officiating, and just go over there and get them out of the TO.

Another thing that really helps me in this situation, is I always tell the coaches at the pregame meeting, get your guys up and begin to bring the huddle to an end at the first horn, so by the 2nd, you are done. In no way, will I just lay the ball down anymore because of what happened in the little league girls game. However, by mentioning it in the pregame, things do run a little smoother in my games.

There's another thing too, on this mechanic that I think is often overlooked. Do not instruct the timer to start the 30 second clock until all the players are in the huddle, that way the teams get the full 30 seconds for the TO.

Last thought on this, if I have something to communicate with my partner/s. Then, indirectly, they get more time as we discuss our situation, for instance, last second shot, horn not that loud, etc., etc.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

We are not going to put the ball in play on the 1st horn anyway. Even if the teams are out there and ready to play, the ball doesn't go back into play until the 2nd horn. So officially, the timeout is not over until the 2nd horn.

So much is wrong with this post, I'll only address the most glaring error by quoting my friend rulebook again.

Originally Posted by RULEBOOK

A single 60-second time-out charged to a team shall not exceed one minute. A warning signal for the teams to prepare to be ready to resume play is sounded at 45 seconds. Such a time-out shall not be reduced in length unless both teams are ready to play before the time-out is over.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

In no way, will I just lay the ball down anymore because of what happened in the little league girls game.

Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Old School

We are not going to put the ball in play on the 1st horn anyway. Even if the teams are out there and ready to play, the ball doesn't go back into play until the 2nd horn. So officially, the timeout is not over until the 2nd horn.

Televised NCAA game - sounds good.
Any other college/HS game - I don't think so. I don't want my games to be 5 hours long unless they have to be.