traveling question

[just another ref]

Though not in the books, it pays to speak the language of the layman. When I speak of counts, it refers to the sound(s) one hears when one foot or two feet simultaneously hit the floor. When people start to question me about what is legal and what is not, many discussions have ended when I tell them there is no legal play that involves a three count after the ball is caught.

[pitchfork]

Jurassic Referee
I'm talking about senerio #1, end dribble in the air that is clearly in the rule book . No offense JRutledge but I believe Jurassic has it crrect you can end the dribble in the air. Is that a direct quote from the rule book, Jurassic?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by pitchfork

Jurassic Referee
I'm talking about senerio #1, end dribble in the air that is clearly in the rule book . No offense JRutledge but I believe Jurassic has it crrect you can end the dribble in the air. Is that a direct quote from the rule book, Jurassic?

NFHS rule 4-44-2a(1):
"A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a(1)-if both feet are off the floor and the player lands simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot".

NFHS rule 4-44-3a:
"After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal".

Those are the applicable rules, pitchfork verbatim. NCAA rules are the same. Iow, the play as described by you is legal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Though not in the books, it pays to speak the language of the layman. When I speak of counts, it refers to the sound(s) one hears when one foot or two feet simultaneously hit the floor. When people start to question me about what is legal and what is not, many discussions have ended when I tell them there is no legal play that involves a three count after the ball is caught.

It might be good to speak in layman terms, but when talking about counts has nothing to do with what the rules says. If I land on one foot and that is your pivot feet, then you can step (or count) as many times with the other foot. It is misleading when using the term counts and many times people say things like "one and a half counts" that is traveling. The problem is I do not know how you "half step." This is why I always bring a conversation back to what the rulebook says when taking to coaches and players. I tell them which one was the pivot foot and what they did or did not do with it.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It might be good to speak in layman terms, but when talking about counts has nothing to do with what the rules says. If I land on one foot and that is your pivot feet, then you can step (or count) as many times with the other foot.

The laymen and I all seem to agree that the "count" refers to different foot or feet landing in sequence. The "moves" in question are all made while "moving." When you stop and pat the same foot over and over, it is no longer a "count." Up to now, this explanation has been very well received, and apparently, reasonably well understood, which is more than I can say for "Over the back is not a foul."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The laymen and I all seem to agree that the "count" refers to different foot or feet landing in sequence. The "moves" in question are all made while "moving." When you stop and pat the same foot over and over, it is no longer a "count." Up to now, this explanation has been very well received, and apparently, reasonably well understood, which is more than I can say for "Over the back is not a foul."

I do not make the statement because of how it is received. I want them to understand that the language I use and most officials use is not related to counts. Now when I was playing I do not recall using the term counts as a part of what was or what was not a travel.

BTW, I have used to much success the comment, "Over the back is not a foul." But I usually back it up with what the rule is or "there is nothing special with the back, he was in his vertical space (or bigger and out jumped your player). The success that I have had is more about directing the conversation whether than if they like it or not. I would rather a coach to stop using a term that does not apply then worry about if they agree with me.

Peace