Technical Foul

[ltllng]

Just want to make sure I understand the NFHS rules on this.

4th Quarter - Team B has 6 players on the floor. Somehow the referees do not pick up the problem until 5 seconds is gone from the clock.

Indirect technical is called on the coach. 2 free throws and the ball for team A. Team fouls are increased by one. Coach now has a indirect, thus must sit.

Please confirm our findings.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ltllng

Just want to make sure I understand the NFHS rules on this.

4th Quarter - Team B has 6 players on the floor. Somehow the referees do not pick up the problem until 5 seconds is gone from the clock.

Indirect technical is called on the coach. 2 free throws and the ball for team A. Team fouls are increased by one. Coach now has a indirect, thus must sit.

Please confirm our findings.

Not quite right.
1. Having more than five team members participating must be detected while it is being violated in order to be penalized. In your case, it was.
2. The proper penalty is a TEAM technical foul per rule 10-1-6.
3. 2 FTs and the ball at the division line are awarded to the opponent.
4. One team foul is added to the offending team's total for the half that counts towards reaching the bonus for the opponents.
5. The head coach of the offending team is NOT charged with an indirect T and may still use the coaching box.

[Rusty Gilbert]

What he said.

[REFVA]

For that situation, I would not penalize the team. As an official we should have detected and not put the ball in play until you had counted the number of players from each team. IMO

[crazy voyager]

Why? It's the coaches responsibility, not the officials. We have no obligation to count the players

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by REFVA

For that situation, I would not penalize the team. As an official we should have detected and not put the ball in play until you had counted the number of players from each team. IMO

Does that mean that you won't penalize someone if you see them wearing an illegal number either because you should have caught it before.

You may want to read case book play 10.1.6(a).

Sorry, but you're completely wrong in your thinking. Just call the rules we have and don't make up your own.

[bigdogrunnin]

Preventative officiating is the key. ALWAYS count the number of players EACH team has on the floor before putting the ball in play. But . . . CV is right. The responsibility lies with the Head Coach, and what Nevada said.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by REFVA

For that situation, I would not penalize the team. As an official we should have detected and not put the ball in play until you had counted the number of players from each team. IMO

Then my question to you is: In what situation would you penalize for having too many players on the court?

[Junker]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Then my question to you is: In what situation would you penalize for having too many players on the court?

Ideally never. As a crew you should communicate and make sure you have 10 players ready to go. That being said, if the officials don't catch it, it's really on the coach and the players to make sure there's the right number out there. If you have too many call the T. In the situation described, it sounds like there may not have been enough communication between partners before the ball was at the disposal of the inbounder. After 5 seconds elapse with too many players, you absolutely have to call the T.

[REFVA]

It just part of game management. Although the rule book states that, I always count the number of player before I put it in play or my partners do and give me the go ahead. I want that T to have a meaning when I give one out. I know I am going to get a big thrashing for that comment. Just pour it on..

In what situation would you penalize for having too many players on the court?

I would give it to someone coming on when not acknowledge or Also I have to clarify at the High school level they should know, at the Fr or Middle school I would not be too easy to give one out.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by REFVA

It just part of game management. Although the rule book states that, I always count the number of player before I put it in play or my partners do and give me the go ahead. I want that T to have a meaning when I give one out. I know I am going to get a big thrashing for that comment. Just pour it on..

I would give it to someone coming on when not acknowledge or Also I have to clarify at the High school level they should know, at the Fr or Middle school I would not be too easy to give one out.

Hopefully we are all counting before putting the ball in play. But sometimes we make mistakes or miscount. It is still incumbent on the team making the substitution to ensure their player(s) leave the court when a replacement enters.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFVA

It just part of game management. Although the rule book states that, I always count the number of player before I put it in play or my partners do and give me the go ahead. I want that T to have a meaning when I give one out. I know I am going to get a big thrashing for that comment. Just pour it on..

I will tell you if you do not call a T for this, you have just lost credibility with both coaches and any other rule that is obvious and you do not enforce, look out my man. You have to penalize this. I agree that most of the time this is the official's fault if we do not count players, but not all times is this about counting players. You might have had a player run onto the court. You may even have a player run off the court and they were not seen at that time. Teams should know when to come onto the court or when not to come on the court ultimately. You have to penalize this. It is an obvious violation of the rules. It is also very preventable, but there are rare situations when players do not leave the court and even sometimes I have had 6 players enter the court after a timeout.

Originally Posted by REFVA

I would give it to someone coming on when not acknowledge or Also I have to clarify at the High school level they should know, at the Fr or Middle school I would not be too easy to give one out.

I agree to a point, but you should not just ignore this violation of the rules when it is so obvious to someone.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by REFVA

It just part of game management. Although the rule book states that, I always count the number of player before I put it in play or my partners do and give me the go ahead. I want that T to have a meaning when I give one out. I know I am going to get a big thrashing for that comment. Just pour it on..

I would give it to someone coming on when not acknowledge or Also I have to clarify at the High school level they should know, at the Fr or Middle school I would not be too easy to give one out.

A technical foul is just what it says, technical. It's a way of dealing with infractions of the technical aspects of the game. Why must it have any meaning? Sure, we debate a lot about the judgement aspects of giving T's for unsporting behavior. But there are many basic, objective technical infractions for which the proscribed penalty is a technical foul.

Yes, we should count the players. Yes, we should castigate ourselves if we allow a team to put more than five players on the floor. We should prevent what we can reasonably prevent, and this is reasonably preventable. But just because we don't happen to catch this infraction doesn't mean we should set aside the penalty for it.

Everybody on the planet knows what the penalty for six players on the floor is. People living in caves who have never seen a basketball know what the penalty is. Why would you shy away from calling what everybody expects you to call? It's not personal, it's not even confrontational/behavioral/game-management, it's a technical infraction of the rules by a team and merits a technical foul.

You want impact? Enforce the appropriate penalty for this careless/clueless behavior and the players will be significantly more aware of how many players are coming onto the floor after a timeout from that moment on.

What other basic rules will you set aside?

[REFVA]

You want impact? Enforce the appropriate penalty for this careless/clueless behavior and the players will be significantly more aware of how many players are coming onto the floor after a timeout from that moment on.

What other basic rules will you set aside?

Point well taken! I haven't had to issue a T for this infraction so I won't elaborate any further. Watch it will happen to me tonight. I guess we have had good pregames and we discuss everything under the sun. Our Pregame normally is about 45 mintues. We try to cover all aspects.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by REFVA

Point well taken! I haven't had to issue a T for this infraction so I won't elaborate any further. Watch it will happen to me tonight. I guess we have had good pregames and we discuss everything under the sun. Our Pregame normally is about 45 mintues. We try to cover all aspects.

The thing is, you can pregame this all you want, and some team somewhere is going to have to get hit for this anyway because B12 doesn't realize coach subbed for him at the time out but lingers around the bench while the players take their seats after the "thirty." You and your partners count 5, but don't realize B12 isn't going to sit down, and put the ball in play. Then you realize B is playing a "box and 2" defense. It only takes a moment's lapse in concentration at the wrong time. It's a T because it's the coach's responsibility; otherwise it would be a correctable error.