Subsitution problems

[tomegun]

I have been having a real problem with substitutions in my new area. A lot of officials here do not insist on a horn from the table for a substitution. Instead, they blow the whistle for subs which is not a high school mechanic. They also allow subs to come to the table one at a time when the ball is ready to be put into play. In fact, some guys use the whistle entirely instead of their voice for things like telling the players to give them the ball. For instance, one partner calls travel and goes to become new lead. The official who is going to put the ball into play blows the whistle to tell the player to give him the ball instead of using his voice and telling the player where the spot is.
I created some problems last night because I insisted on the players being at the table and a horn from the table.

Do you guys use the whistle for every sub along with or instead of a horn from the table?

[JRutledge]

It is customary to use the whistle for many substitution situations where I live. It has been encouraged to use the whistle instead of using having the horn blown. For one many tables blow the horn at the improper time. Now it is not encouraged at all times that a whistle is necessary, but to get our partner's attention so they so they do not put the ball in play too soon. It really is not a big deal. I do see why you would want to have the players at the table before the horn is blown. I guess it just comes down to what is taught where you live and is anyone going to make a big deal out of this.

Peace

[Kelvin green]

We try and use a whistle on every sub. It is good communication between partners and I think we have found that it prevents a lot of problems because it means someone is watching....

We dont use whistles on the other stuff you describe. However there are a few of us that blow the whistle on most baseline plays when the ball is coming in. Rule states anythine there is a substantial delay... If there has been a sub or any time of delay I blow my whistle; worka a lot better than telling players ball is in play. Coach has no excuse if they get burned on an inbound play because everyone hears the whistle.

[tomegun]

I guess it does boil down to where you live sometimes. I can't change it, but it does get on my nerves. I don't agree about it being good communication between partners. We should always look at the table to check for subs and look at our partners regardless of whether we use a whistle or a horn. Using the whistle for everything devalues the whistle IMO.
Working with a good table that knows when to use the horn is better than officials blowing their whistle all the time IMO. It becomes a big deal here because substitutions become inconsistent. To each his own.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I have been having a real problem with substitutions in my new area. A lot of officials here do not insist on a horn from the table for a substitution. Instead, they blow the whistle for subs which is not a high school mechanic. They also allow subs to come to the table one at a time when the ball is ready to be put into play. In fact, some guys use the whistle entirely instead of their voice for things like telling the players to give them the ball. For instance, one partner calls travel and goes to become new lead. The official who is going to put the ball into play blows the whistle to tell the player to give him the ball instead of using his voice and telling the player where the spot is.
I created some problems last night because I insisted on the players being at the table and a horn from the table.

Do you guys use the whistle for every sub along with or instead of a horn from the table?

It drives me nuts watching officials that DON'T whistle the sub in, although we expect a horn first followed by the whistle from the covering official. It really does depend on your area.

[just another ref]

Around here, neither the horn nor the whistle is absolutely necessary. I think of the horn as a way to get the officials attention, and the whistle gets the attention of the waiting sub (come in) and the other officials. (don't put the ball in play yet) If I have the ball in my hand and I am close to the table, if I see the sub get up and come to the x, I may wave him/her into the game without a horn or a whistle. The biggest problems here are: 1. Coaches who think that they can yell "Sub!" and stop the proceedings anywhere short of a live ball, even if the player is not even off the bench yet. 2. Many players at all levels think the horn is their green light to enter the court.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

It drives me nuts watching officials that DON'T whistle the sub in, although we expect a horn first followed by the whistle from the covering official. It really does depend on your area.

Are you working NCAAW games? That is the only rule set which I know of where a whistle is required or even desired for bringing in subs.

I'm with Tom, the fewer whistles during the game, the better. I want to be able to hear when I'm 50!

[cropduster]

What gets me is when the table doesn't use horn. For example, I see a kid get up and start for the table while the ball is in play. Several seconds go by and then we get a dead ball. Then for some reason I get distracted like after an intense play or something out of the ordinary; and, just as the ball is about to be put in play I look over and the kid is standing on the X and the table hasn't buzzed us to let us know about the sub. Now I know a lot of you are thinking that I should not get rattled or distracted. I'm getting better with time and experience, but I'm still waiting for the horn.

BTW, do any of you guys have table-bench locations that are out of the ordinary? Like table 10 feet in the air with no possible way to see subs? We have one that the sub flips a light switch to let them know he/she is down there. Another gym has home bench table side and visitors across gym floor. Are we unique are do ya'll see some of the same stuff?

barryb

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by cropduster

What gets me is when the table doesn't use horn. For example, I see a kid get up and start for the table while the ball is in play. Several seconds go by and then we get a dead ball. Then for some reason I get distracted like after an intense play or something out of the ordinary; and, just as the ball is about to be put in play I look over and the kid is standing on the X and the table hasn't buzzed us to let us know about the sub. Now I know a lot of you are thinking that I should not get rattled or distracted. I'm getting better with time and experience, but I'm still waiting for the horn.

BTW, do any of you guys have table-bench locations that are out of the ordinary? Like table 10 feet in the air with no possible way to see subs? We have one that the sub flips a light switch to let them know he/she is down there. Another gym has home bench table side and visitors across gym floor. Are we unique are do ya'll see some of the same stuff?

barryb

Nothing much out of the ordinary around here. But I noticed that Vanderbilt's gym was rather odd during Saturday's Vandy/GT game. Benches at the end of the floor. Table about 20 feet off the floor and sunken down in. There was about 20 feet of free space on both sidelines. Was it built to house an olympic ice rink or something?

[SmokeEater]

I watched a game last eyar where two courts were set up going across the width of the main Varsity court. It was a club league tournament. The clock connection was at center court of the main court and so the tournament had to set up at the end lines of the two other courts, with the benches closer to mid court. Home team always had the advantage here being closer to the table. It got so bad for the officials that they eventually started to let the substitutes change on the fly. Like hockey. I really couldn't believe it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are you working NCAAW games? That is the only rule set which I know of where a whistle is required or even desired for bringing in subs.

I'm with Tom, the fewer whistles during the game, the better. I want to be able to hear when I'm 50!

I wish people would realize that local custom and practice count for something. Using a whistle or not using a whistle is a trivial thing and sometimes it's better to adapt to the local custom than stubbornly point at a mechanics manual and convince others that they are "wrong."

[Eastshire]

I have to use the whistle because the table never uses the horn.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I wish people would realize that local custom and practice count for something. Using a whistle or not using a whistle is a trivial thing and sometimes it's better to adapt to the local custom than stubbornly point at a mechanics manual and convince others that they are "wrong."

I would have to look it up, but this is not really addressed in the NF manual. Either way it goes, who cares if you blow the whistle or not as long as you are following what is accepted. Waiting on the horn is not always the best thing when you have table personnel does not properly use the horn. I personally perfer blowing my whistle because if I do not, the horn might go off at the wrong time and it lets my partner know that I am holding them up for a reason.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

I used to be a no whistle guy. I had a camp this summer where they specificially told us they wanted a whistle on every sub (the camp was run by the local college assigner, a retired D1 womens official -- when in Rome...). Since then, I've just kept on using it.

I have noticed that using the whistle can work to your advantage in one small, but helpful way. If you can consistently get a whistle on the sub before the table gets a horn on him, it makes you look more on top of stuff.

[tw1ns]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I have to use the whistle because the table never uses the horn.

I guess you could solve that by telling the operator to sound the horn when the subs have properly reported...
I have noticed that some crews like to blow the whistle every time the ball is put into play...not necessary. But, I do agree, if there has been a delay, or if you want to get someones attention, blow it.