Intentional Foul Help

[TimTaylor]

I also agree that both the situations you described are intentional fouls. Strategic fouling in end game situations is part of the game, but they need to do it correctly.

As Bob said, the coach screaming "foul them" is not in and of itself justification to call any subsequent foul intentional. That said, it should serve as a reminder to pay close attention to make sure any resulting action by the player isn't intentional by definition.

OK, let's change the scenario a little:
Boys JV game last week, mid 2nd quarter. A2 cuts across the lane, B2 guarding him is unable to keep up and grabs the back of A2's jersey with both hands clearly slowing him down.

What's your call?

Mine was an intentional foul on B2.

[Junker]

Had I been there, I would have said, "nice call partner."

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

OK, let's change the scenario a little:
Boys JV game last week, mid 2nd quarter. A2 cuts across the lane, B2 guarding him is unable to keep up and grabs the back of A2's jersey with both hands clearly slowing him down.

What's your call?

Mine was an intentional foul on B2.

Definitely intentional!

[SmokeEater]

Absolutely its an intentional. Mid 2nd quarter or last minute of the game. Consistancy is the key.

[Chess Ref]

Had I been there, I would have said, "nice call partner."

[Old School]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

OK, let's change the scenario a little:
Boys JV game last week, mid 2nd quarter. A2 cuts across the lane, B2 guarding him is unable to keep up and grabs the back of A2's jersey with both hands clearly slowing him down.

What's your call?

Mine was an intentional foul on B2.

I don't disagree with the intentional foul called, accept now if you have a similiar thing happen on the other end, it's got to be intentional there too. In the 2nd quarter, there's room for some preventative medicine here. First, it was a great off-ball get (call). Second, you could have walked out of there with a holding call and just tell the player don't do it again. It's a JV game, remember. If he doesn't do it again, problem solved and you didn't have to burn an intentional, slow the game down, get one of the coaches upset, to accomplish it. Likewise, if it does happen again, you can now step up and call it intentional and tell them, I warn you in the first half.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School1)

I don't disagree with the intentional foul called, accept now if you have a similiar thing happen on the other end, it's got to be intentional there too.

2) In the 2nd quarter, there's room for some preventative medicine here. First, it was a great off-ball get (call). Second, you could have walked out of there with a holding call and just tell the player don't do it again. It's a JV game, remember. If he doesn't do it again, problem solved and you didn't have to burn an intentional, slow the game down, get one of the coaches upset, to accomplish it. Likewise, if it does happen again, you can now step up and call it intentional and tell them, I warn you in the first half.

1) Exactly. That's called officiating consistency.

2) Unfortunately, if you want to be consistent the whole game too, you've just opened up an enormous can of worms. If you don't call the intentional foul for a 2-handed grab of the shirt in the second quarter, then you don't call the intentional foul for the same act at the end of the fourth quarter. And if you warn one player, then you had better be prepared to warn every player on both teams also. I can just see you issuing multi-warnings at the end of a game. "Don't do that, #5". "You, don't do that either, #11". etc., etc.

Btw, worrying about whether a coach is going to be upset or not is never a factor when real officials make a call.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Unfortunately, if you want to be consistent the whole game too, you've just opened up an enormous can of worms. If you don't call the intentional foul for a 2-handed grab of the shirt in the second quarter, then you don't call the intentional foul for the same act at the end of the fourth quarter. And if you warn one player, then you had better be prepared to warn every player on both teams also. I can just see you issuing multi-warnings at the end of a game. "Don't do that, #5". "You, don't do that either, #11". etc., etc.

BTW, worrying about whether a coach is going to be upset or not is never a factor when real officials make a call.

More terrible advice from the King.

I see that Bob keeps deleting my responses. I responded to this one too but it got deleted. However, he leaves it fair game for you to insult me again and again and again. We'll see how long it takes Bob to delete this one too.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

I see that Bob keeps deleting my responses. I responded to this one too but it got deleted. However, he leaves it fair game for you to insult me again and again and again.

Actually, I have deleted and edited many of JR's comments to you. I'd appreciate it if you (both of you) would stick to discussing the ruling / play.

[Reffin' Sgt]

Originally Posted by Old School

I don't disagree with the intentional foul called, accept now if you have a similiar thing happen on the other end, it's got to be intentional there too. In the 2nd quarter, there's room for some preventative medicine here. First, it was a great off-ball get (call). Second, you could have walked out of there with a holding call and just tell the player don't do it again. It's a JV game, remember. If he doesn't do it again, problem solved and you didn't have to burn an intentional, slow the game down, get one of the coaches upset, to accomplish it. Likewise, if it does happen again, you can now step up and call it intentional and tell them, I warn you in the first half.

I'm not limited to the number of intentional fouls I can call. I'll call them all night if the situation warrants. If officials call intentional fouls consistently, it will actually help keep the game clean and eliminate the cheap stuff, IMO.