Another Back Court Question

FishinRef · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 04, 2006, 04:40pm

A1 has the ball in front court along baseline. A1 gets trapped & throws a long pass towards A2 at the division line. B2 TIPS ball then A2 TIPS the ball. Ball goes into backcourt. A2 retrieves the ball. Do you have a backcourt violation? I guess the real question is.......does the tip by B2 cause a loss of A’s team control?

Jurassic Referee · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 04, 2006, 04:45pm

The tip by B2 does not mean a loss oteam control. Therefore.....back court violation.See case book plays 4.12COMMENT

just another ref · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 04, 2006, 04:46pm

If A2 was in the frontcourt, it is a violation. Tip by B did not cause loss of team control.

FishinRef · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 04, 2006, 04:51pm

That's what I thought, but I didn't have my books to verify. Thanks for the input.

Back In The Saddle · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 04, 2006, 04:54pm

Once team control is established, it is lost only on:

A dead ball
A try
When the other team gains control

And, of course, the other team only gains control when one of their players is holding or dribbling a live ball in-bounds.

Nevadaref · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 04, 2006, 09:02pm

I believe that the NBA rule is different from the NCAA and NFHS ruling for this play. I think that in the NBA team control does end on the touch by B2 and therefore this is not a backcourt violation. That may well be the source of much misunderstanding at the NCAA and NFHS levels.

Scrapper1 · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 08:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that the NBA rule is different from the NCAA and NFHS ruling for this play. I think that in the NBA team control does end on the touch by B2 and therefore this is not a backcourt violation. That may well be the source of much misunderstanding at the NCAA and NFHS levels.

From the NBA's website.

Quote:

Rule 4, Section XVII-Team Control
A team is in control when a player is holding, dribbling or passing the ball. Team control ends when the defensive team deflects the ball or there is a field goal attempt.

So the play in question is not a backcourt violation in the NBA, but IS a violation under NFHS and college rules.

SmokeEater · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 08:57am

And yet if Team A is the last to touch the ball in the front court even if B tips it then I got a BC violation. I gotta look for the reference but don't have my book handy. So I might be wrong.

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 09:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

And yet if Team A is the last to touch the ball in the front court even if B tips it then I got a BC violation. I gotta look for the reference but don't have my book handy. So I might be wrong.

You're right. That's exactly what everybody else has said so far btw.

SmokeEater · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 09:26am

Thanks , I concluded from scrappers response that there would not be a BC call since no team control after B tipped the ball. If the balll had gone into the backcourt after B tipped it then A went to recover I would not call a violation. That was who my response was to.

Jurassic Referee · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Thanks , I concluded from scrappers response that there would not be a BC call since no team control after B tipped the ball. If the balll had gone into the backcourt after B tipped it then A went to recover I would not call a violation. That was who my response was to.

Scrapper was talking about it not being a back court violation under NBA rules only, which is correct afaik. Iow, if you were just responding to Scrapper, then you did have it wrong.

Scrapper1 · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 10:48am

Jurrassic is right about my previous post. It was meant to apply to NBA rules only. I've edited that post to make it clearer.

Camron Rust · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

From the NBA's website.

So the play in question is not a backcourt violation in the NBA, but IS a violation under NFHS and college rules.

You learn something everyday...now I know the source of the belief (by more than 1 HS player/coach) that a defensive tip absolves the offense of a subsequent backcourt violation.

Thanks, Scrapper.

SmokeEater · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Scrapper was talking about it not being a back court violation under NBA rules only, which is correct afaik. Iow, if you were just responding to Scrapper, then you did have it wrong.

So your saying even if B deflects the ball into the backcourt and then A goes to get it there should be a BC violation? That is where I am missing something.

Adam · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 05, 2006, 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

So your saying even if B deflects the ball into the backcourt and then A goes to get it there should be a BC violation? That is where I am missing something.

Here's the scenario we're seeing here. A1 has the ball in the front court and attempts a pass to A2. B1 deflects (tips) the pass towards the back court. Before it crosses over, A3 (standing in the front court) tips it in an attempt to grab it. A3 then chases the ball into the back court. This is a violation in HS and college, as team control never ended and A was the last to touch the ball in the front court as well as the first to touch it after the ball went into the back court.

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