0 seconds on the clock, Stop the game?

[Jimgolf]

We had this happen during two games this weekend. We have an old scoreboard, with a new controller. The controller shows tenths of seconds, but the scoreboard does not. The controller shows 0.9, 0.8, 0.7 seconds, but the shot clock shows 00:00, so the officials blow the whistle, saying end of quarter. I explain the situation to them, and we proceed with no further issues the rest of the day, with me warning subsequent officials.

Anyone run into this before? Any suggestions? (Like maybe the scoreboard controller or the scoreboard could be altered to match each other?)

[Lotto]

I was always taught that the clock doesn't officially expire until the horn sounds (shot clock or game clock) for exactly this reason.

[Nevadaref]

In NFHS, you play until the horn sounds unless there is a malfunction.
In NCAA, time has expired in the period when the clock shows all zeros.

This is an equipment problem which needs to be fixed.

[Junker]

Saturday morning I did a freshman game and had a similar situation. The horn went off with .1 on the clock. I told the administrator that I'm pretty sure about what I saw and heard explaining that they might want to keep an eye on it. The scoreboard only appeared to do this once.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In NCAA, time has expired in the period when the clock shows all zeros.

Nope.

================================================
5-7-2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become
activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall
end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.

a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall
terminate players’ activity

[JRutledge]

Dan beat me to it.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Dan beat me to it.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Nope.

================================================
5-7-2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become
activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall
end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.

a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall
terminate players’ activity

That's not what they came out with last year.
They issued a written ruling following the Oklahoma/Texas Tech game that the game clock showing all zeros has #1 priority, #2 is the LED lights coming on, and # is the horn sounding.

I'll see if I can find it.

[Nevadaref]

Dan,
Here is where they codified their earlier missive. Do I have an incorrect understanding of how to handle this?

RULE 5 / SCORING AND TIMING REGULATIONS

Section 7. Beginning and End of Period
Art. 1. Each period shall begin when the ball becomes live.

Art. 2.

Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become

activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall
end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall
terminate players’ activity.
b. In games with a 10th of a second game clock display and where an
official courtside monitor is used, the reading of 0.00 on the game
clock is to be used to determine whether a try for goal occurred
before or after the expiration of time in any period. When the game
clock is not visible, the officials shall verify the original call with
the use of the red/LED light(s). When the red/LED light(s) are not
visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be utilized. When
definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the
original call stands.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's not what they came out with last year.
They issued a written ruling following the Oklahoma/Texas Tech game that the game clock showing all zeros has #1 priority, #2 is the LED lights coming on, and # is the horn sounding.

I'll see if I can find it.

What I posted is from this years book.

As I recall the memo was sent in order to clarify the priority for when these things are out of sync on a replay monitor. If it worked your way absolutely the period would end on 00:00 before a horn or red light. It don't work that way.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In NFHS, you play until the horn sounds unless there is a malfunction.
In NCAA, time has expired in the period when the clock shows all zeros.

This is an equipment problem which needs to be fixed.

We use NFHS rules, so do we still need to do anything?

The horn works fine and doesn't go off until 0.0, but I think the officials are just assuming there is an issue.

I can probably get the scoreboard company to adjust this, if necessary. But if we change the scorebaord to change after the second has passed, the issue then may be that the officials may think the clock hasn't started properly.

Progress!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

We had this happen during two games this weekend. We have an old scoreboard, with a new controller. The controller shows tenths of seconds, but the scoreboard does not. The controller shows 0.9, 0.8, 0.7 seconds, but the shot clock shows 00:00, so the officials blow the whistle, saying end of quarter. I explain the situation to them, and we proceed with no further issues the rest of the day, with me warning subsequent officials.

Anyone run into this before? Any suggestions? (Like maybe the scoreboard controller or the scoreboard could be altered to match each other?)

There's no issue. Nearly all clock that don't show tenth's of second on the board will have a 1 second lag between the clock showing zero and the horn. (Clocks with tenths displayed will have a .1 second lag).

To check, set the time for any even minute (say, 8:00). Turn the clock on-an-off as quickly as possible (it should be about .2 seconds). If the clock reads 7:59, the the clock has the lag -- the "real time" is .0 to .999999 longer than then time displayed. If the clock reads 8:00, then the horn will sound immediately when the clock reads 0:00 -- the "real time" is .0 to .9999999 less than the display time.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Dan,
Here is where they codified their earlier missive. Do I have an incorrect understanding of how to handle this?

RULE 5 / SCORING AND TIMING REGULATIONS

Section 7. Beginning and End of Period
Art. 1. Each period shall begin when the ball becomes live.

Art. 2.

Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become

activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall
end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall
terminate players’ activity.
b. In games with a 10th of a second game clock display and where an
official courtside monitor is used, the reading of 0.00 on the game
clock is to be used to determine whether a try for goal occurred
before or after the expiration of time in any period. When the game
clock is not visible, the officials shall verify the original call with
the use of the red/LED light(s). When the red/LED light(s) are not
visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be utilized. When
definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the
original call stands.

From my understanding, Nevada, (and I don't have an NCAA book at the moment) for the first call on the court - the red light prevails (hopefully at the same time as :00.0 on the clock and the horn going off).

When looking at the replay monitor, the call is based on when the clock hits :00.0.

Not sure why there's the discrepancy, but I seem to remember an issue in a PC game a few seasons ago.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Dan,
Here is where they codified their earlier missive. Do I have an incorrect understanding of how to handle this?

RULE 5 / SCORING AND TIMING REGULATIONS

Section 7. Beginning and End of Period
Art. 1. Each period shall begin when the ball becomes live.

Art. 2.

Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights has become

activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall
end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall
terminate players’ activity.
b. In games with a 10th of a second game clock display and where an
official courtside monitor is used, the reading of 0.00 on the game
clock is to be used to determine whether a try for goal occurred
before or after the expiration of time in any period. When the game
clock is not visible, the officials shall verify the original call with
the use of the red/LED light(s). When the red/LED light(s) are not
visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be utilized. When
definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the
original call stands.

I take (b) to infer it is evident to all that the end of the period has already happened per 5-7-2a. The horn HAS sounded and if present the visible LED light has illuminated. (b) has nothing to do with determining the end of a period but in ONLY a guidline to determine the legality of a last second shot.

In close games the referees need to make a decision if a player has released the ball legally before the expiration of time for it to score points.

In high school we can only use our eyes and ears to determine a legal release. If we say released then we allow the basket. If we say no release we blow whistle and say game over or OT. Our decision stands. There is no procedure allowed to verify my decision as referee.

In NCAA, a procedure to verify my on-court decision is stated (7-5-2b). No matter whether I counted the goal or negated it I must use the procedure to determine if I was right or wrong. The order is 0:00 on game clock per court side moniter, if none did LED light up per the court side monitor, if neither of those two are conclusive then the the decision made by referee using sight (ball released or not) and ears (horn sounded) is final.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

I take (b) to infer it is evident to all that the end of the period has already happened per 5-7-2a. .

No, the written word implies. The reader infers.

So, "I infer from (b) that it is evident to all..."

Or, "The book implies in (b) that it is evident to all..."