Screaming at Shooter

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Junker

I'm completely with JR here. Addressing this is just looking to make a good night into a bad one. I've never even heard of someone taking care of this. In my experience, the offesive player makes the basket more often than not and the defensive player figures out that it's just a stupid move that doesn't work.

Amen. And it just doesn't happen much anyway. Ignoring it doesn't make it get worse, because it's stupid, as you say. And since it's not illegal, I say, ignore away!

[TADW_Elessar]

Just two (euro) cents:

FIBA Official Interpretations 2006, art. 38, statement 3:
"While a player is in the act of shooting for goal, opponents shall not be permitted to disconcert that player by actions such as waving a hand(s) to obstruct the shooter’s field of vision, shouting loudly, stamping feet heavily or clapping hands near the shooter. To do so may result in a technical foul if the shooter is disadvantaged by the action, or a warning if the shooter is not disadvantaged.

Example
A4 is in the act of shooting for a goal when B4 attempts to distract A4 by shouting loudly or stamping feet heavily of the floor. The shot for goal is:
(a) Successful
(b) Unsuccessful.

Interpretation:
(a) A warning shall be given to B4 and shall be communicated to coach B. This warning shall apply to all players of team B for the remainder of the game for similar behaviour.
(b) A technical foul shall be charged to B4."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TADW_Elessar

Just two (euro) cents:

FIBA Official Interpretations 2006, art. 38, statement 3:
"While a player is in the act of shooting for goal, opponents shall not be permitted to disconcert that player by actions such as waving a hand(s) to obstruct the shooter’s field of vision, shouting loudly, stamping feet heavily or clapping hands near the shooter. To do so may result in a technical foul if the shooter is disadvantaged by the action, or a warning if the shooter is not disadvantaged.

Example
A4 is in the act of shooting for a goal when B4 attempts to distract A4 by shouting loudly or stamping feet heavily of the floor. The shot for goal is:
(a) Successful
(b) Unsuccessful.

Interpretation:
(a) A warning shall be given to B4 and shall be communicated to coach B. This warning shall apply to all players of team B for the remainder of the game for similar behaviour.
(b) A technical foul shall be charged to B4."

So FIBA treats basketball like golf or bowling? Interesting.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So FIBA treats basketball like golf or bowling? Interesting.

I don't really think the point of the FIBA rule (which I like) is to make basketball like golf. But the fact is that yelling at the shooter is NOT playing defense, it is NOT a basketball skill and it is NOT sportsmanlike.

When we are taught how to call intentional fouls at the end of the game, one of the expressions that we hear over and over is make sure the defender is making a "basketball play". You can hit someone's arm in a normal defensive posture, or you can hit someone's arm from behind with no chance to touch the ball. The first is a normal "basketball play"; the second is not. It's possible to be surprised by an opponent's cut to the ball and reach out and inadvertantly hold the player (even the player's jersey); you can also simply grab the jersey on purpose to prevent the cut to the ball. The first is a "basketball play"; the second is not.

I think the FIBA rule eliminates tactics that are clearly not "basketball plays". Yelling at someone is not part of what it takes to play the game. Getting rid of this "tactic" would be a positive step, IMHO.

[Adam]

Best way to get rid of it is for shooters not to be affected.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I don't really think the point of the FIBA rule (which I like) is to make basketball like golf. But the fact is that yelling at the shooter is NOT playing defense, it is NOT a basketball skill and it is NOT sportsmanlike.

When we are taught how to call intentional fouls at the end of the game, one of the expressions that we hear over and over is make sure the defender is making a "basketball play". You can hit someone's arm in a normal defensive posture, or you can hit someone's arm from behind with no chance to touch the ball. The first is a normal "basketball play"; the second is not. It's possible to be surprised by an opponent's cut to the ball and reach out and inadvertantly hold the player (even the player's jersey); you can also simply grab the jersey on purpose to prevent the cut to the ball. The first is a "basketball play"; the second is not.

I think the FIBA rule eliminates tactics that are clearly not "basketball plays". Yelling at someone is not part of what it takes to play the game. Getting rid of this "tactic" would be a positive step, IMHO.

That's cool, ScrappyDoo, but would you have the courage of your convictions to ever call that in a FED or NCAA game?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's cool, ScrappyDoo, but would you have the courage of your convictions to ever call that in a FED or NCAA game?

If they included it as a new rule or POE, you bet I would. I hate that crap. As the rules stand now, I don't call it -- I've been told not to call it -- even though I believe it to be unsportsmanlike. Give me a rule to stand on, and this will happen only once in my game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Give me a rule to stand on, and this will happen only once in my game.

Oooooooooooohhhhhhhh!

Didn't you read NevadaRef's posts?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Amen. And it just doesn't happen much anyway. Ignoring it doesn't make it get worse, because it's stupid, as you say. And since it's not illegal, I say, ignore away!

There you go again, unequivocally stating that this action is not illegal. That is what I objected to earlier. What you have written is simply not true. It is up to the discretion of the official working that particular game to determine the legality of this type of action. There is not a single official on this forum who can authoritatively tell you that screaming at an opposing shooter is a legal play. The most anyone who is not an NFHS rules committee member or an official state interpreter can do is say how he/she personally interprets it or how he/she recommends this play be called.

The bottom line is that this is a judgment call.

Interesting to see how FIBA judges this act.

[Scrapper1]

Personally, I like the FIBA approach to this.

[TADW_Elessar]

I forgot to point out that this situation is not covered anywhere in the FIBA Rulebook.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by TADW_Elessar

I forgot to point out that this situation is not covered anywhere in the FIBA Rulebook.

So it is an interpretation not from the Rulesbook? Aside from the interpretation, do you see it called?

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by TADW_Elessar

I forgot to point out that this situation is not covered anywhere in the FIBA Rulebook.

How does an interpretation not come from a rule?

[TADW_Elessar]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

How does an interpretation not come from a rule?

It comes from 38.1.2: "Each team shall do its best to secure victory, but this must be done in the spirit of sportsmanship and fair play."
They however issued the interpretation to make it clearer.

And yes, I see this called. Actually, people will complain if you don't...

So, it is not explicitly illegal by the book, but the interpretation makes clear it is, since it is not an act within "the spirit of sportsmanship".

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

. The most anyone who is not an NFHS rules committee member or an official state interpreter can do is say how he/she personally interprets it or how he/she recommends this play be called.

Nevada, it's exactly the fact that the rules committee doesn't say it's illegal that makes it not illegal. My interpretations are completely irrelavant. It's the rules committee that gets to make the rules. And they haven't ruled on this.

I don't like it when kids do it, but the only reason people seem to give for calling it is do discourage them from doing it. But there's nothing in the rules about being allowed to do that, so I can't just "judgment" myself into doing it according to my preferences.