Screaming at Shooter

[Mregor]

About 7 or 8 years ago, I remember an Fed interpretation regarding yelling "BALL, BALL, BALL". It was deemed legal only while being closely guarded. I also remember our state extending this to the play described in OP. I agree it is not valid defense and has no place in the game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

We've discussed this before. No matter how unpleasant or unacceptable you may think it, it's not illegal. If you call an unsporting T, you'd better have a jolly good explanation, because there's no rule book support of any kind. I suppose if it's close enough to the ear that it might cause damage, you'd be justified. Otherwise, ya gotta let it go, and lobby the rules committee to get your way.

Who decided that this is not illegal? There certainly is rules book support for a technical foul here if the official deems this to be an unsporting foul.
Until the NFHS comes out with a play ruling that explicitly states that yelling at an opponent is acceptable, I'll read the rule and decide for myself whether the action comes under its purview, thanks.

4-19-14 . . . An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Who decided that this is not illegal? There certainly is rules book support for a technical foul here if the official deems this to be an unsporting foul.
Until the NFHS comes out with a play ruling that explicitly states that yelling at an opponent is acceptable, I'll read the rule and decide for myself whether the action comes under its purview, thanks.

4-19-14 . . . An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

Puh-leeze.

As the they said in the Wizard of Oz...Not nobody, not nohow!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mregor

About 7 or 8 years ago, I remember an Fed interpretation regarding yelling "BALL, BALL, BALL". It was deemed legal only while being closely guarded. I also remember our state extending this to the play described in OP. I agree it is not valid defense and has no place in the game.

I don't remember ever seeing an interp saying anything like that. Are you sure? Usually, if the FED issues one, they'll put it in the case book the next year.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Puh-leeze.

As the they said in the Wizard of Oz...Not nobody, not nohow!

And the ones that do will get their azzes chewed out by angry old assignors.

Yes, the rules do allow an individual official to label that an unsporting act and issue a "T" for it. Barring profanity, no, it sureasheck isn't the usual procedure or common practice to call it though- in my experience anyway.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Who decided that this is not illegal? There certainly is rules book support for a technical foul here if the official deems this to be an unsporting foul.
Until the NFHS comes out with a play ruling that explicitly states that yelling at an opponent is acceptable, I'll read the rule and decide for myself whether the action comes under its purview, thanks.

4-19-14 . . . An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

I agree it should be a technical foul if the gym is quiet and the defensive player screams and all can hear it I would go ahead and whack the player. Hopefully there is some type of cheering going on in the gym (covering up the scream somewhat) and I can possibly get to that player after the play and let them know that it will not be tolerated.

Have the stones to make the right call and not just the most popular call.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Have the stones to make the right call and not just the most popular call.

Easier said than done. If you go blowing that T in the leagues I work, you won't work long. I can't say I think the yelling is the most sportsmanlike practice, but I can't say I'd throw a T on it. If you go out and throw every by the book T you see, I doubt if the contracts will keep coming your way. Is that right? Maybe not, but that's the way the profession works.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Junker

Easier said than done. If you go blowing that T in the leagues I work, you won't work long. I can't say I think the yelling is the most sportsmanlike practice, but I can't say I'd throw a T on it. If you go out and throw every by the book T you see, I doubt if the contracts will keep coming your way. Is that right? Maybe not, but that's the way the profession works.

By the book T? This one isn't! Even if it's legitimate to "interpret" the act of yelling at the shooter as unsportsmanlike, that's an interp not a by the book T. Lots of leeway here not to call this. Not much leeway to call it.

And "stones" aren't what's required to call this. Popularity isn't the point here. Following the rules is. Just because I want to call something even though it's legal, doesn't mean it takes intestinal fortitude to call it. THat's just plain .......... well, whatever.....

[Junker]

I agree completely Rainmaker. I was trying to make the point that if an official goes looking for anything that could possibly be unsporting, they won't be moving up the chain any time soon. I suppose if it was yelled directly into an ear like an earlier post, I might bring the T, but otherwise I'm never even thinking about addressing this.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

By the book T? This one isn't! Even if it's legitimate to "interpret" the act of yelling at the shooter as unsportsmanlike, that's an interp not a by the book T. Lots of leeway here not to call this. Not much leeway to call it.

And "stones" aren't what's required to call this. Popularity isn't the point here. Following the rules is. Just because I want to call something even though it's legal, doesn't mean it takes intestinal fortitude to call it. THat's just plain .......... well, whatever.....

Ah...discretion, interpretation, and judgment...so good to hear that from you.

Now that's much different from your first post in which you flatly stated, "No matter how unpleasant or unacceptable you may think it, it's not illegal," and "there's no rule book support of any kind."

That was the point of my responding post.

Notice that I did not say that I would call a T for this, I merely wrote that, in the absence of anything directly addressing it from the NFHS, I would interpret the rule and decide if it qualified as an unsporting foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Junker

I was trying to make the point that if an official goes looking for anything that could possibly be unsporting, they won't be moving up the chain any time soon.

Yup, if the accepted and expected foul in your area is to ignore this one, then it would probably be kinda smart to do whatever everybody else is doing( and what your assignors/evaluators want you to do). You don't want to be That Official.

And....personally I've never seen any area where the expected and accepted call is an unsporting "T": for plays like this. Of course, that sureasheck doesn't mean that there aren't any.

Bottom line imo.....get some advice from your local pooh-bahs on how they want it called.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ah...discretion, interpretation, and judgment...so good to hear that from you.

Now that's much different from your first post in which you flatly stated, "No matter how unpleasant or unacceptable you may think it, it's not illegal," and "there's no rule book support of any kind."

That was the point of my responding post.

Notice that I did not say that I would call a T for this, I merely wrote that, in the absence of anything directly addressing it from the NFHS, I would interpret the rule and decide if it qualified as an unsporting foul.

Well, except that I put "interp" into "quotation marks" and I never said discretion or judgment. I'm certainly NOT a letter of the law kind of gal, but there's no way this call is anywhere near the letter of the law, that was my point. Someone called it a "by the book" T. It's absolutely not. Period. In fact, it's the interp that's the furthest/farthest from the book.

[j51969]

Like I said if it's just a flat out scream at someone who's shooting an open lay-up, and you don't call something you will have as much explaining to do as I. Every idiotic thing that can happen isn't coverd in the rule book. I had it happen, and I have seen it happen (always girls). But to just let it go, and have a bunch of people screaming intermittenly at one another is just ridiculous. Call a T, don't call a T. But to say or do nothing for an act that has nothing to do with the game is short sided.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by j51969

Like I said if it's just a flat out scream at someone who's shooting an open lay-up, and you don't call something you will have as much explaining to do as I.

As I said before, not in my area. You would have a heckuva lot more explaining to do if you did call a "T". It would certainly slow down your advancement up the ladder too.

I'd check with my peers/asssignor/evaluator on that one, if I were you. Jmo fwiw.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by j51969

Like I said if it's just a flat out scream at someone who's shooting an open lay-up, and you don't call something you will have as much explaining to do as I. Every idiotic thing that can happen isn't coverd in the rule book. I had it happen, and I have seen it happen (always girls). But to just let it go, and have a bunch of people screaming intermittenly at one another is just ridiculous. Call a T, don't call a T. But to say or do nothing for an act that has nothing to do with the game is short sided.

Very well put, I agree, something has to be done. We just can't ignore it (well some of you will).