Where is the Throw-in?

[Zoochy]

(1) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. A2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while standing completely OOB along the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

(2) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. A2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while 1 foot is touching the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

(3) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. B2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while standing completely OOB along the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

(4) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. B2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while 1 foot is touching the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

(1) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. A2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while standing completely OOB along the sideline. Where is the throw-in?
Where A2 was. A2 violated not A1.

(2) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. A2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while 1 foot is touching the sideline. Where is the throw-in?
Where A2 was. A2 violated not A1.

(3) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. B2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while standing completely OOB along the sideline. Where is the throw-in?
Where B2 was. A1 did not violate.

(4) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. B2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while 1 foot is touching the sideline. Where is the throw-in?
Where B2 was. A1 did not violate.

In the first two cases, the real question is what violation did the player who stepped OOB commit 9-2-10, 9-2-12, or 9-3-2. In the final two cases 9-2-12 wouldn't apply, so the choice would be between the other two.

[Chess Ref]

I'll take a shot at this....

1. Throw-in is where A2 caused ball to go OOB.

2. Throw-in is where A2 caused ball to go OOB.

3. Throw-in is where B2 caused ball to go OOB.

4. Throw-in is where B2 caused ball to go OOB.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

(1) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. A2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while standing completely OOB along the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

(2) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. A2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while 1 foot is touching the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

(3) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. B2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while standing completely OOB along the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

(4) A1 has a baseline throw-in near the free throw lane. B2 catches the ball, near midcourt, while 1 foot is touching the sideline. Where is the throw-in?

In all cases, the player catching the throw-in committed a violation under R9-2-10--"No player shall be out of bounds when he/she touches or is touched by the ball after it has been released on a throw-in pass".. The penalty for doing so is at the bottom of R9-2--"The ball becomes dead when the violation...occurs. Following a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in at the original throw-in spot".

[Chess Ref]

After reading the dinosaur's post I change my answer and agree with his ruling......

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

In all cases, the player catching the throw-in committed a violation under R9-2-10--"No player shall be out of bounds when he/she touches or is touched by the ball after it has been released on a throw-in pass".. The penalty for doing so is at the bottom of R9-2--"The ball becomes dead when the violation...occurs. Following a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in at the original throw-in spot".

Holy smokes, Batman!!!!!!! An unannounced rule change that has escaped my notice for two entire seasons!!!!

This is crazy. I was sure that I knew the proper application of this rule, so I went and checked my books. Sure enough the NFHS changed the wording in the penalty section in 2004-05 without notice. Furthermore, they reorganized the layout of the entire section (9-2) in the 2005-06 book without comment.

Here is what the penalty section said in 2003-04 prior to the change:
Penalty: (Section 2) The ball becomes dead when the violation or technical foul occurs. Following a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in at the out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.

Compare that to what JR provided above for the 2006-07 version and you will see the difference. This clearly changes the location of the ensuing throw-in. It appears that I have been unaware that I have been administering this incorrectly for two years now.

[rainmaker]

This is interesting. I would have interpreted this completely wrong, and now that I've looked through all the relevant items, I see the correct way. Thanks for the learning opprotunity. Now I've had my one new thing for the day, and I can go back to being a mindless slug, even at our rules clinic which is this evening!

[Nevadaref]

Juulie,
I think that you should definitely point this out to Howard at your rules clinic. This is something of which the entire association should be made aware. You even have my permission to print out my previous post and show it to him. I'm very interested in what he says. I don't know if the NFHS is even aware of the consequences of their wording change. Did they just make an editorial screw-up or did they really intend to change the rule? I trust that Howard has the proper contacts to get the proper answers.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Juulie,
I think that you should definitely point this out to Howard at your rules clinic. This is something of which the entire association should be made aware. You even have my permission to print out my previous post and show it to him. I'm very interested in what he says. I don't know if the NFHS is even aware of the consequences of their wording change. Did they just make an editorial screw-up or did they really intend to change the rule? I trust that Howard has the proper contacts to get the proper answers.

Nevada, think about it. Everything falls into place now, rules-wise.

Do you consider the status of a player to be the same as where they are standing?
ANSWER:Yup.

What status does a player have when they're standing OOB?
ANSWER: Well...they're OOB.

What happens if a thrower throws a throw-in OOB without it touching a player in-bounds first?
ANSWER: You go back to the original throw-in spot.

Makes sense to me- logically. They're just treating the OOB player as being the same as the floor OOB.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

They're just treating the OOB player as being the same as the floor OOB.

And that works unless the OOB player is on the OPPOSING team!

The OOB player still caused the ball to go OOB, right? So why are we bringing the ball all the way back down the floor to the original throw-in spot?

Furthermore, what if the original throw-in was an endline running throw-in instead of a designated-spot one? If A1 makes the throw-in and B1 is the OOB player at the other end of the court who is standing with one foot OOB when he catches the ball, does Team A retain the right to run on the ensuing throw-in per 7-5-7?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And that works unless the OOB player is on the OPPOSING team!

The OOB player still caused the ball to go OOB, right? So why are we bringing the ball all the way back down the floor to the original throw-in spot?

Furthermore, what if the original throw-in was an endline running throw-in instead of a designated-spot one? If A1 makes the throw-in and B1 is the OOB player at the other end of the court who is standing with one foot OOB when he catches the ball, does Team A retain the right to run on the ensuing throw-in per 7-5-7?

[FishinRef]

And that works unless the OOB player is on the OPPOSING team!

The OOB player still caused the ball to go OOB, right? So why are we bringing the ball all the way back down the floor to the original throw-in spot?

Furthermore, what if the original throw-in was an endline running throw-in instead of a designated-spot one? If A1 makes the throw-in and B1 is the OOB player at the other end of the court who is standing with one foot OOB when he catches the ball, does Team A retain the right to run on the ensuing throw-in per 7-5-7?

I would think that A1 would retain the right to run the end line (7-5-7)

[kycat1]

This would be a spot throw in because the throw-in ends when the ball is released by A1. So 7-5-7 would not apply any more!

[just another ref]

This is a direct conflict, is it not?

9-2-10 says one thing, but.....

9-3-1: A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds.

penalty:.....awarded to the opponents......spot nearest the violation


7-2-2 If the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched by a player who is on or outside a boundary line, such player causes it to go out.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kycat1

This would be a spot throw in because the throw-in ends when the ball is released by A1. So 7-5-7 would not apply any more!

Much like your misunderstanding of the backcourt play, you are incorrect about when a throw-in ends.

Go read 4-42-5.