HS: Re-do throw in

[Texas Aggie]

I don't have a Fed book handy and the last one I had was probably '97 or so and wouldn't update changes.

Here's the bizarre scenario (that actually happened):

3.18 seconds left, Team A coming back from timout trailing by 3 for baseline throw in with ability to run the line. There is a legal pass along the baseline from A-1 to A-2 (still out of bounds), and then a pass from A-2 to A-3 about 7/8ths of the way down the court (well inside the 3 point line). A-3 receives pass cleanly, then makes a turn toward the basket when the horn goes off. There's no way it took 3+ seconds for the catch and turn, so it is clear the clock operator started the clock on the OOB throw along the baseline.

After the horn goes off, the officials realize the clock started prematurely and go to the table. Team A's coach is incensed and starts yelling like a madman (pretty much the same way he'd been doing the entire game). After a discussion, the officials decide to put 3.18 back on the clock and replay it. So here we go again, except that this time, there is no OOB pass. A direct pass down to the other side of the court is intercepted by Team B, who makes two passes, then throws the ball in the air. Something's missing here: NO HORN. Team A grabs the ball out of the air and shoots a 2 point shot that goes in. Still no horn.

Turns out the clock operator put 3:18 (as in minutes) instead of 3.18 SECONDS on the clock. After 10 minutes of discussion, the officials decide to replay it yet one more time. This time the horn goes off and Team A doesn't get a shot off. Team B wins by 3.

Now, other than killing the clock operator, tell me what you would have done at each instance in this situation.

[tjones1]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
I don't have a Fed book handy and the last one I had was probably '97 or so and wouldn't update changes.

Here's the bizarre scenario (that actually happened):

3.18 seconds left, Team A coming back from timout trailing by 3 for baseline throw in with ability to run the line. There is a legal pass along the baseline from A-1 to A-2 (still out of bounds), and then a pass from A-2 to A-3 about 7/8ths of the way down the court (well inside the 3 point line). A-3 receives pass cleanly, then makes a turn toward the basket when the horn goes off. There's no way it took 3+ seconds for the catch and turn, so it is clear the clock operator started the clock on the OOB throw along the baseline.

After the horn goes off, the officials realize the clock started prematurely and go to the table. Team A's coach is incensed and starts yelling like a madman (pretty much the same way he'd been doing the entire game). After a discussion, the officials decide to put 3.18 back on the clock and replay it. So here we go again, except that this time, there is no OOB pass. A direct pass down to the other side of the court is intercepted by Team B, who makes two passes, then throws the ball in the air. Something's missing here: NO HORN. Team A grabs the ball out of the air and shoots a 2 point shot that goes in. Still no horn.

Turns out the clock operator put 3:18 (as in minutes) instead of 3.18 SECONDS on the clock. After 10 minutes of discussion, the officials decide to replay it yet one more time. This time the horn goes off and Team A doesn't get a shot off. Team B wins by 3.

Now, other than killing the clock operator, tell me what you would have done at each instance in this situation.

What a mess!! IMO, they did right by putting time back on since there was a timing error. However, whenever they did this, they should have checked the clock to make sure the right time was placed on the clock, therefore there being 3 minutes and 18 seconds was somewhat their fault too.

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA AR:

"With four seconds left on the game clock, A1 is throwing-in the ball to A2. The timer incorrectly starts the game clock before the passed ball touches or is legally touched by an
inbounds player. The official recognizes the timer’s mistake and immediately blows his or her whistle while the passed ball is in flight. RULING: Since the timer has made a mistake,
the official, with definite knowledge, shall place the correct time on the game clock. Play shall be resumed with a throw-in by Team Afrom the original throw-in spot."

[blindzebra]

Why would team A get a second do-over?

Team B stole the ball correct? Team B had the ball when the timer's error was discovered? Was there a 10 second count after the steal?

Why was the ball put back in play with 3:18 instead of 0:03?

[QuebecRef87]

If it was obvious that the shot was made after 3 seconds elapsed, why didn't the officials whistle the end of the game before the shot?

[gostars]

Originally posted by blindzebra
Why would team A get a second do-over?

Team B stole the ball correct? Team B had the ball when the timer's error was discovered? Was there a 10 second count after the steal?

Why was the ball put back in play with 3:18 instead of 0:03?

Some of the clocks in our area have the : painted on and show 100ths of a second when the clock is stopped. So, if you look at the clock it will read 3:18 however there on only 3.18 seconds on the clock. Once it begins to run the clock goes back to 10ths of a second (3.1, 3.0, 2.9 etc.). When time is put back there is no way to tell of the clock operator put 3:18 or 3.18 on the clock. You have to hit a special .00 button on the controller before you try to set the clock. Very confusing.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

WILL IT NEVER END??!!

This is not a do-over. The game clock is set to 3.18 seconds and Team A gets a designated throw-in nearest the spot to where A3 caught A2's endline throw-in pass.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
WILL IT NEVER END??!!

This is not a do-over. The game clock is set to 3.18 seconds and Team A gets a designated throw-in nearest the spot to where A3 caught A2's endline throw-in pass.

MTD, Sr.

Now you've done it. You've gotten MTD, Sr.'s culotte in a twist.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Now you've done it. You've gotten MTD, Sr.'s culotte in a twist.

LMAO

[Texas Aggie]

Couple of things:

They had to run the clock down from 1:00 several times (that was really annoying) to just under 4. The best they could do on the SECOND reset was 3.24. The first one went to 3.18 easily, but we now know it was 3:18, not 3.18.

Anyway, this was a Texas 5A (largest class) playoff game with a packed house and two officials. I think the officials lost control of the game earlier by letting Team A's coach get on them on every call and talk to them on every timeout. Team A's players were whiners as well. By the time this happened, virtually anything they did was going to be a problem due to their, in my view, lack of control. That's a lesson to us all: keep control of your game at all times.

I disagree with the interpretation of putting the ball at the designated spot nearest the point where the original play ended. If its done that way, there must be some time elapsed, but either way, this gives Team A way too much of an advantage, because when A-3 received the pass, he and only one other player were even in the front court. Almost no chance at a 3 point shot since he was well inside the arc. I doubt he would have gotten a shot off. A throw in gives them a perfect position. At most, there were about 1.75 seconds left. From what I remember about Fed rules, I don't think that justifies any sort of clock reset; game over.

If you do reset, you have to play it from the baseline, and the second time, the game should have been declared over. I know over 3 seconds elapsed for a pass catch, two passes, then a ball thrown into the air.

The game is being replayed as we speak on cable. I'll time it and get back here.

[BoomerSooner]

Unfortunatly as much as we know that time had elapsed, the throw in should occur at the point nearest to the interuption with 3.18 seconds on the clock unless definite info as to how much time ran off is available (then adjust accordingly). Everybody would agree to this had the ball only been passed to half court, but for some reason most think that since it went 7/8ths of the way down the court somehow it should be a redo.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Couple of things:

They had to run the clock down from 1:00 several times (that was really annoying) to just under 4. The best they could do on the SECOND reset was 3.24. The first one went to 3.18 easily, but we now know it was 3:18, not 3.18.

Anyway, this was a Texas 5A (largest class) playoff game with a packed house and two officials. I think the officials lost control of the game earlier by letting Team A's coach get on them on every call and talk to them on every timeout. Team A's players were whiners as well. By the time this happened, virtually anything they did was going to be a problem due to their, in my view, lack of control. That's a lesson to us all: keep control of your game at all times.

I disagree with the interpretation of putting the ball at the designated spot nearest the point where the original play ended. If its done that way, there must be some time elapsed, but either way, this gives Team A way too much of an advantage, because when A-3 received the pass, he and only one other player were even in the front court. Almost no chance at a 3 point shot since he was well inside the arc. I doubt he would have gotten a shot off. A throw in gives them a perfect position. At most, there were about 1.75 seconds left. From what I remember about Fed rules, I don't think that justifies any sort of clock reset; game over.

If you do reset, you have to play it from the baseline, and the second time, the game should have been declared over. I know over 3 seconds elapsed for a pass catch, two passes, then a ball thrown into the air.

The game is being replayed as we speak on cable. I'll time it and get back here.

According your play, A3 received an inbounds pass from A2. That means the clock was not supposed to start until the ball was touchded by A3. Team A did nothing wrong in this play. The only mistake made was that the game clock started too soon. The fact that the game clock started too soon does not negate Team A's throw-in play. Under both NFHS and NCAA rules. The clock must be reset to the time that the officials definitely knew was on the clock and this is 3.18 seconds. There are a few of us in this group that believe that the NFHS and NCAA should adopt the NBA/WNBA rule where 0.3 seconds would be reduced on the game clock for a play like this but the current rules do not allow us to do such a thing.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
[/B]

The fact that the game clock started too soon does not negate Team A's throw-in play.
[/B][/QUOTE]Got a rules citation to back that up?

How many times is this now that we've argued this stoopid play?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

The fact that the game clock started too soon does not negate Team A's throw-in play.
[/B]

Got a rules citation to back that up?

How many times is this now that we've argued this stoopid play? [/B][/QUOTE]



JR:

Quote me a rule that would negate Team A's throw-in play?

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Got a rules citation to back that up?

How many times is this now that we've argued this stoopid play? [/B]

Quote me a rule that would negate Team A's throw-in play?

[/B][/QUOTE]Naw, I think that I'll let BlindZebra play with ya again. I'm tired of this one.