Where is the Throw-in?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

They're just treating the OOB player as being the same as the floor OOB.

And that works unless the OOB player is on the OPPOSING team!

The OOB player still caused the ball to go OOB, right? So why are we bringing the ball all the way back down the floor to the original throw-in spot?

Furthermore, what if the original throw-in was an endline running throw-in instead of a designated-spot one? If A1 makes the throw-in and B1 is the OOB player at the other end of the court who is standing with one foot OOB when he catches the ball, does Team A retain the right to run on the ensuing throw-in per 7-5-7?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And that works unless the OOB player is on the OPPOSING team!

The OOB player still caused the ball to go OOB, right? So why are we bringing the ball all the way back down the floor to the original throw-in spot?

Furthermore, what if the original throw-in was an endline running throw-in instead of a designated-spot one? If A1 makes the throw-in and B1 is the OOB player at the other end of the court who is standing with one foot OOB when he catches the ball, does Team A retain the right to run on the ensuing throw-in per 7-5-7?

[FishinRef]

And that works unless the OOB player is on the OPPOSING team!

The OOB player still caused the ball to go OOB, right? So why are we bringing the ball all the way back down the floor to the original throw-in spot?

Furthermore, what if the original throw-in was an endline running throw-in instead of a designated-spot one? If A1 makes the throw-in and B1 is the OOB player at the other end of the court who is standing with one foot OOB when he catches the ball, does Team A retain the right to run on the ensuing throw-in per 7-5-7?

I would think that A1 would retain the right to run the end line (7-5-7)

[kycat1]

This would be a spot throw in because the throw-in ends when the ball is released by A1. So 7-5-7 would not apply any more!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kycat1

This would be a spot throw in because the throw-in ends when the ball is released by A1. So 7-5-7 would not apply any more!

Much like your misunderstanding of the backcourt play, you are incorrect about when a throw-in ends.

Go read 4-42-5.

[kycat1]

Sorry, I read the rule too fast. Yes the COUNT ends when the ball is released and the throw-in ends when the ball is touched by a player either inbounds or out of bounds! So rule 7-5-7 still does not apply!

Thanks for the correction.

I am still waiting on a reply from Mary Struckhoff (Editor of NFHS rulebook) on the backcourt rule. Everyone that I have asked (up through the state rules committee) says that my interpretation is correct. We will let Mary decide and if I am wrong I will call that backcourt play as you suggest!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kycat1

I am still waiting on a reply from Mary Struckhoff (Editor of NFHS rulebook) on the backcourt rule. Everyone that I have asked (up through the state rules committee) says that my interpretation is correct. We will let Mary decide and if I am wrong I will call that backcourt play as you suggest!

Well the way they are going the NFHS might as well just change that rule too and screw me up even more!

My head hurts. Where is that graphic that JR always posts of the smiley face blowing up?

[Nevadaref]

Now this is getting ridiculous!!!

I just discovered that 4-42-5 was changed this season without any notice. Another freakin' unannounced change!!! What is the NFHS doing?

2005-06 Rules Book Version:
RULE 4
SECTION 42 THROW-IN, THROWER, DESIGNATED SPOT
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, an inbounds player other than the thrower.


2006-07 Rules Book Version:
RULE 4
SECTION 42 THROW-IN, THROWER, DESIGNATED SPOT
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds.


I was just about to contend that the most recent wording of the penalty section for 9-2 makes logical sense because the player who touched the ball in these examples was out of bounds thus his touching did not end the throw-in--only a touch by an inbounds player would end the throw-in (in 2005-06). So bringing the ball back to the original spot for the ensuing throw-in was starting to make sense to me. However, now they go and change the rule this year, thus that rationale doesn't work anymore.

ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now this is getting ridiculous!!!

I just discovered that 4-42-5 was changed this season without any notice. Another freakin' unannounced change!!! What is the NFHS doing?

2005-06 Rules Book Version:
RULE 4
SECTION 42 THROW-IN, THROWER, DESIGNATED SPOT
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, an inbounds player other than the thrower.


2006-07 Rules Book Version:
RULE 4
SECTION 42 THROW-IN, THROWER, DESIGNATED SPOT
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds.


I was just about to contend that the most recent wording of the penalty section for 9-2 makes logical sense because the player who touched the ball in these examples was out of bounds thus his touching did not end the throw-in--only a touch by an inbounds player would end the throw-in (in 2005-06). So bringing the ball back to the original spot for the ensuing throw-in was starting to make sense to me. However, now they go and change the rule this year, thus that rationale doesn't work anymore.

ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

If you really want your head to explode - check the wording on all these "unannounced changes" and compare them with the wording in the NCAA rule book...they are making changes that pretty much match the NCAA rules.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now this is getting ridiculous!!!

I just discovered that 4-42-5 was changed this season without any notice. Another freakin' unannounced change!!! What is the NFHS doing?

2005-06 Rules Book Version:
RULE 4
SECTION 42 THROW-IN, THROWER, DESIGNATED SPOT
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, an inbounds player other than the thrower.


2006-07 Rules Book Version:
RULE 4
SECTION 42 THROW-IN, THROWER, DESIGNATED SPOT
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds.


I was just about to contend that the most recent wording of the penalty section for 9-2 makes logical sense because the player who touched the ball in these examples was out of bounds thus his touching did not end the throw-in--only a touch by an inbounds player would end the throw-in (in 2005-06). So bringing the ball back to the original spot for the ensuing throw-in was starting to make sense to me. However, now they go and change the rule this year, thus that rationale doesn't work anymore.

ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

Ignoring the fact that they changed the wording for a second. Why would you even consider bringing the ball back to the original spot when the throwin is first touched by an OOB player? I could see where you're going if that player was on the same team as the thrower...sort of like throwing it directly OOB without being touched....treating it like a throwin violation.

BUT, what if the player that is OOB is on the other team. Who has actually violated? The thrower or the player touching it OOB? Of course you'll agree that it is the player who thouches the ball OOB and that location is the location of the violation (not the throwin spot).

Now, flip the situation back to the teammate of the thrower. The rule makes absolutely no distinction about what team touches the ball OOB. So, the teammate case has the same enforcement as the opponent case.

So, your rationale never worked....unless you were going to give the ball to the defending team when they were able to contact a throwin while OOB.

[just another ref]

This is a direct conflict, is it not?

9-2-10 says one thing, but.....

9-3-1: A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds.

penalty:.....awarded to the opponents......spot nearest the violation


7-2-2 If the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched by a player who is on or outside a boundary line, such player causes it to go out.