Throw-in/Backcourt violation?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

A1 shoots, ball comes off the backboard and rim hard and bounds all the way out to the division line. A2 leaps from his FC, catches the ball while airborne, and lands in the BC. Is this a violation? Damn skippy it is.

Doesn't this seem counter-intuitive though? If A1 lets the ball go into the backcourt, then picks it up, there is no violation at all, but if A1 catches it, and steps on the division line, it's a violation.

Is this really the intent of the backcourt rule?

Yes, it is. You can apply your conclusion to other BC violations, too.

A1 ends his dribble and passes the ball. B1 deflects it, A2 leaps from his FC, catches the ball and lands in his BC. Is this a violation? Yes. Would it have been a violation if he had allowed the ball to go into the BC and then retrieved it? No, it would not.

[kycat1]

This is a very basic ruling on the court. Rule 9-9-3 says ... A player from the team not in control: so who has team control during a throw in and during a shot? NO TEAM! Rule 4-12-6.
Therefore by basic logic, any player on the court may jump from their frontcourt and catch a throw-in or a rebound and then land in their backcourt without a violation even if the ball has been deflected!

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by kycat1

This is a very basic ruling on the court. Rule 9-9-3 says ... A player from the team not in control: so who has team control during a throw in and during a shot? NO TEAM! Rule 4-12-6.
Therefore by basic logic, any player on the court may jump from their frontcourt and catch a throw-in or a rebound and then land in their backcourt without a violation even if the ball has been deflected!

I would argue that for the purposes of this rule only one team can be considered not in control. Why? It says the team not in control not a team not in control. The rule does not consider times when neither team is in control other than throw-ins and jump balls. Therefore I am with BktBallRef.

[kycat1]

And you both would be wrong!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kycat1

And you both would be wrong!!!

Might as well put me down for being wrong too, along with the others.

[Grail]

I have to ask, though it says THE team not in control, which team is in control? The definitions say that there is no team contol during a throw in, and if there is no Team control, there can be no Player Control, so...

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Grail

I have to ask, though it says THE team not in control, which team is in control? The definitions say that there is no team contol during a throw in, and if there is no Team control, there can be no Player Control, so...

I think what some may have miss is that. Although, there is not team control during a throw in or try for goal. What we have is a live loose ball. The try has ended and according to the play it was unsuccessful. Therefore, Team A was the last in control. IAW R4-12-5 player control was established when A1 lept from his frontcourt secures control of the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt. Thus, a violation.

[just another ref]

I humbly submit that this is another oversight in the specific wording in the book. When they say "the team not in control" and then list the three examples in parenthesis, it is quite possible that these were intended to be the only three cases where it applied. But, the fact is a deflection on a throw-in does not change the control status of the ball, and in this case there is no team control by either team. Therefore, I conclude it was intended that this player be allowed to catch the ball and come down in backcourt. If this ever happens, which as far as I can testify personally, never has since the beginning of time, this will be my interpretation, but if I am calling with Tony or JR, even if it is the state finals, and they call the violation right in front of me from across the court, I won't be mad.

The only angle which has not been addressed here:

Jump ball to start the game: A1 tips the ball hard straight down. It hits the floor and bounces high in the air. A2 leaps from his frontcourt, catches the ball and lands in backcourt. According to me and Nevada, this is ok. According to some esteemed members, who are older and/or wiser than us, it is a violation. Correct?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Grail

I have to ask, though it says THE team not in control, which team is in control? The definitions say that there is no team contol during a throw in, and if there is no Team control, there can be no Player Control, so...

Read the rule. "...the team not in control..." The rule says nothing about team control. On a throw-in, the thrower has control of the ball. The statement in the rule book has nothing to do with team or player control at this point. If I'm the thrower, I have control. If you are my opponent, you are a defender. If I release the ball, then my team was the last team in control. My team did NOT have team control.

[Ref in PA]

I think the intent of the rule is when team control is established while the player securing that control is airborn. The rule is allowing for that person to make a normal landing with the ball, regardless of if the jump started from FC or BC.

I will grant that the way the rule is written it can be interpreted to ambiguously. To me, 9-9-3 is clear. The team not in control can jump, secure team control and make a normal landing. Until I see a specific interpretation from the FED or a case play it will not be a violation in the games I ref.

That is just the way I see it.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Ref in PA]I think the intent of the rule is when team control is established while the player securing that control is airborn. The rule is allowing for that person to make a normal landing with the ball, regardless of if the jump started from FC or BC.

Where was the player last location be the leap FC look at rule R4-4

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

I think the intent of the rule is when team control is established while the player securing that control is airborn. The rule is allowing for that person to make a normal landing with the ball, regardless of if the jump started from FC or BC.

That's not true. The rule only applies to a defensive player or during a throw-in or a jump ball. There's no other time this applies.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I would argue that for the purposes of this rule only one team can be considered not in control. Why? It says the team not in control not a team not in control. The rule does not consider times when neither team is in control other than throw-ins and jump balls. Therefore I am with BktBallRef.

Sorry, but it can't work that way. Either team may make this play on a given throwin or jump ball (whether you're in Tony's or Nevada's camp).

FWIW (not much, I know), I'm in Nevada's camp on this. The rule, as written, indicates that the rule applies when a player's team is not in control of the ball and that the three examples given are not all-inclusive. Not a hill worth dying on for me, though.