No time out left, or do I

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Hello JR good to hear from you. First let me say that I did have the info when I coached and was sure I had it. However I never got upset @ a official for reminding of such information. If anything I appreciated it. Wasn't really implying that you need to approach the game like I do. Since this was a open forum I was just giving my opinion. That all nothing more.

I never said I was concerned about a coach getting upset with me because I gave their timeout situation.

Just like you gave your opinion, I am giving mine. This is an open forum and this is a free country to do what you see fit when you officiate.

Peace

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I never said I was concerned about a coach getting upset with me because I gave their timeout situation.

Just like you gave your opinion, I am giving mine. This is an open forum and this is a free country to do what you see fit when you officiate.

Peace

Fair enough

[BillyMac]

NFHS Rule 2-11-6

"The scorer shall: ... notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS Rule 2-11-6

"The scorer shall: ... notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out."

As BillyMac has posted, an official is required to notify the coach when they have no time-outs remaining. It seems that the officials failed to fulfill a specified duty in this game.

That said, the extra time-out that the team requested is still excessive and must still be penalized with a team technical foul. Just know that this one is the officials' fault. Unfortunately, mistakes happen. Life's not fair sometimes, the game of basketball isn't fair sometimes either. It is a good life lesson.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As BillyMac has posted, an official is required to notify the coach when they have no time-outs remaining. It seems that the officials failed to fulfill a specified duty in this game.

You sure?

This weekend at a 9th grade tournament, Team b coach asks the official scorekeeper (parent of team A player), how many timeouts he had left. Scorekeeper indicates he has 1 timeout left. Both my partner and I hear him tell him he has 1 timeout left.

[bronco]

I think that the level of basketball has some bearing on this. I'm actually a coach, and at the HS level, I would have absolutely no problem with a technical in this situation, every time. At the grade school level, though, the point of the leagues and tournaments are to teach the game and have fun, a lot of times with parents as volunteers as both coaches and scorekeepers. In that case, even w/o rules backup, I can see an official saying right away that they were out of TOs, and start the game back up. I know there is no mechanic or rule/casebook play to back that up, but I could see it being the best way to handle it at younger levels.

I coached for several years @ the varsity level. I NEVER, NEVER relied on the table for any info, (fouls, time outs, opposing teams fouls or time outs.) My assistants only job during the game was to make sure our book was as accurate if not better then the tables. So when I wanted info I could get it right away and I knew it was reliable.

While it is commendable to keep track of these things on your own, the official book is the official book. It doesn't matter if your asst. coach was more accurate, if there is a dispute about these things the official book takes precedence. So I am not sure how this could effectively prevent problems where the official book has incorrect information on fouls, TOs, etc.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by bronco

While it is commendable to keep track of these things on your own, the official book is the official book. It doesn't matter if your asst. coach was more accurate, if there is a dispute about these things the official book takes precedence. So I am not sure how this could effectively prevent problems where the official book has incorrect information on fouls, TOs, etc.

It wouldn't matter. My point was that I wouldn't be asking the table for anything. If my asst. gave wrong info then I would simply have to live with the penalty, if any.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bronco

While it is commendable to keep track of these things on your own, the official book is the official book. It doesn't matter if your asst. coach was more accurate, if there is a dispute about these things the official book takes precedence. So I am not sure how this could effectively prevent problems where the official book has incorrect information on fouls, TOs, etc.

This is why the visiting team's score book should sit next to the official book when possible. At the very least you will not go several minutes without a problem being addressed in a timely matter. You can always refer to other books if a mistake is know by the officials and obvious. You do not just have to go with the official book at all costs. You only go only with the official book when a mistake cannot be found and when the mistake was made.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Quote:


You sure?

Quote:

Yep, that's what the rule says, Dan.
As for whatever the scorekeeper indicates, I was taught NEVER to leave the game in the hands of the table. Plus with definite knowledge the referee can change anything in the scorebook, so it doesn't matter what the scorer says, it matters what the referee knows.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As for whatever the scorekeeper indicates, I was taught NEVER to leave the game in the hands of the table. Plus with definite knowledge the referee can change anything in the scorebook, so it doesn't matter what the scorer says, it matters what the referee knows.

So are you saying that during a game you keep up with this kind of information yourself? # of timeouts, etc.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yep, that's what the rule says, Dan.
As for whatever the scorekeeper indicates, I was taught NEVER to leave the game in the hands of the table. Plus with definite knowledge the referee can change anything in the scorebook, so it doesn't matter what the scorer says, it matters what the referee knows.

Great point!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

......with definite knowledge the referee can change anything in the scorebook.

Is this a line from the book? I do not recall seeing it.

If it is a line in the book or if it is a concept that is accepted as being in the book, I'm still concerned about the term "definite knowledge." If you tell the scorer, "You and your book are wrong. I know because I was keeping up with it," (whatever it may be in this case) the only thing I'm fairly certain of is you're going to alienate the scorer. I think you have to put at least a certain amount of trust in your crew, which includes the table, whether you think they are worthy of this trust or not.