Get the call right? Stray from your primary? How far?

[rfp]

I'm lead, offensive team has ball in the corner right in front of me. Player A1 passes the ball to A2 near midcourt. Player A2 has run a backdoor causing ball to go backcourt. Player A3 clearly retrieves it in the backcourt. No whistle from my partner and no eye contact to me looking for help. Do you, as trail, make the backcourt call? I guess this falls in the category of get the call right and stray from your primary only when it's obvious, but also how far out of your primary do you stray with a weak partner vs. letting/forcing him to get the call right or deal with the consequences? What if it were slightly less obvious and you thought there was a slight chance a defender might have touched the ball before it went backcourt?

Now the game was a blowout and the violating team was on the losing end, so it was easy for me (and everyone else) to ignore, but it got me thinking about the situation if the game had been tighter. Your thoughts?

[tomegun]

Are you talking about calling a backcourt from the Lead?

[rfp]

Yes, when your partner, the trail, ignores it.

[JRutledge]

You should not make that call. If your partner cannot make that call, then you need to leave it alone. Maybe they saw something you did not. Let them make that call even if they are wrong. Not sure how a Lead official would know for sure this call is right.

Peace

[OHBBREF]

I would agree with JR on this one,
that is a tough call to make from the base line,
even with your calling card

There is a whole lot that could have happened that you might not have seen that could effect the call, If you make that and you are wrong it will be a long night.

[FrankHtown]

Girls 9th grade. 2 person. Brand new partner. I'm trail, Team A bringing the ball up, dribbling about 5 feet above the arc. Whistle from my partner at lead. Double dribble. I figured, well maybe I was screened from the dribbler's other hand, and I missed an obvious one. It happens.

Team A comes down later, takes a three pointer from the top of the key, again I'm Trail. I signal the three pointer, Lead signals 3 pointer. Now I know he's ball watching. At break, I tried to emphasize with him that if both of us are watching the shooter, who is watching the paint. He assured me he can see the whole court, and I'm missing many violations, and he's having to call them.

At another point in the game, I'm trail, and ball goes into Lead's primary, he squares up to take the play and I go off ball. A member of the offence is in the lane for about 5 seconds, so i call a 3 second violation. He informed me that is the Lead's call, and I shouldn't be calling in the paint.

At that point all I thought about was get in, get done, get out

[FrankHtown]

Then i realized it was my fault for not discussing in pre-game who was going to call all the violations.

[IREFU2]

I agree, leave it alone.

[Camron Rust]

I had this very thing happen 5-6 years ago. I was lead, A1 from a trap at baseline/corner on my side threw the ball by out to the top of the key. It went WAY over the intended recipients head and into the backcourt where A3 retrieved the ball unhindered. It was a very obvious backcourt call to everyone in the gym except my partner. He didn't know where or how the ball got there or who had touched it last since he was not watching my corner. I mentally debated whether I should call it or not. I chose to not call it.

I was being evaluated by someone I trusted. We talked about it after the game. His take was that I should have called it....as was my partner's. This was a call that requires knowledge from both officials primaries to get right but one official (the trail) was the only person in the gym that wouldn't have the needed info if they're working proper mechanics....and my partner was.

The lead, who was in position to see the entire play could recognize that the pass as it left the hands of A1 was heading into the backcourt and be ready to assist the trail if they do not call the obvious violation.



The mechanics are a strong guide, not a rule. They're designed to cover almost all of the stuff that can happen in a game....the most common stuff. When something goofy happens on the court, the mechanics may not be designed to cover the situation. In this case, the backcourt coverage mechanic is designed for 99.99% of the cases where all the action happens in the trail's area or at least near the trail's area where the trial may have a reasonable view of what happened.


A far more common but less problematic situation is when A1, who is near the trail official's and the sideline and is under heavy pressure, passes the ball towards A4 who is posting up on the blocks. But, due to the pressure, the pass goes wide and OOB on the endline. The lead, who has crossed the lane to cover the post action, calls the violation since it is clear that it went OOB but the will often not know if the ball was tipped or not since it focus was through the lane and not towards the trail officials. The trail official has the info and makes the call once the lead requests help.

The backcourt situation doesn't have this natural stopping point to ask for the help.

[Gimlet25id]

I had a very well respected final four DI official tell me that sometimes all you can do is give information, even if all you have is half of the play or 50% information. In this case if L was 150% sure it was a violation, I mean the whole place is moaning because they know we missed the call, then L could hit the whistle and come out to T to see if T had a tip of any kind on the defense. If T didn't then call the violation. Worst case scenerio is that T has a tip and you have to call a inadvertant whistle which would give the ball back to the team in control.

I don't know if I could do this personally. Personally I hope it doesn't happen to me. I can see how it could from Camron's post. However if it happens in a big game, close to the end and the game is tied then its a call we don't want to miss as a crew. Lets face it its not who missed the call it's WE missed the call. If you hit it and go inadvertant that would be a whole lot better then just missing it all together.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I had this very thing happen 5-6 years ago. I was lead, A1 from a trap at baseline/corner on my side threw the ball by out to the top of the key. It went WAY over the intended recipients head and into the backcourt where A3 retrieved the ball unhindered. It was a very obvious backcourt call to everyone in the gym except my partner. He didn't know where or how the ball got there or who had touched it last since he was not watching my corner. I mentally debated whether I should call it or not. I chose to not call it.

I was being evaluated by someone I trusted. We talked about it after the game. His take was that I should have called it....as was my partner's. This was a call that requires knowledge from both officials primaries to get right but one official (the trail) was the only person in the gym that wouldn't have the needed info if they're working proper mechanics....and my partner was.

This is, indeed, a tough position. I think the best thing would be to have excellent communication between the two officials in the form of eye contact and perhaps a gesture or something. But not too many of us pre-game this in a way that's really useful. In volleyball, there are little signals that the partners can make to each other that help the other decide whether or not to call something. What little signal might there be that would let the trail know that this needs to be called? If the trail is paying attention, he'll know that he needs help, and should look at the lead for help. How could the lead let trail know which way to go? Assuming everyone is working together and trying to communicate well to get the call right...

[just another ref]

I have made this call once in 20 years as far as I can recall. I had just started as an official and was calling a game with a guy who was one of my elementary school teachers. Starting the 2nd half, he put the ball in play. A1 passed to A2, who was clearly in frontcourt, at least 5 feet. A1 stepped inbounds, clearly in backcourt, and took a return pass. I paused long enough to give him the opportunity, then made the call. He looked sheepish and said something like, "Yeah, it was, wasn't it?" Under identical circumstances, I think I would make the same call today, if I saw it that clearly. The difference now is that it is less likely that I would be watching the ball from lead in this situation. Also, if any defender was anywhere in the picture that might have touched the ball, I certainly would not attempt to make the call.