Jump Ball strange one

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Lotto

Since this one isn't covered by anything in the rulebook other than 2-3 (elastic power), I go with the setting the arrow in B's direction as soon as the ball passes through the basket.

So you don't believe that this part applies in this situation?


RULE 4, SECTION 3 SETTING DIRECTION OF INITIAL ARROW
Alternating-possession control is established and the initial direction of the possession arrow is set toward the opponent's basket when:
ART. 1 . . . A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the free thrower after a common foul when the bonus free throw is in effect.
ART. 3 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after:
a. A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.
b. The free throws for a noncommon foul.
c. A common foul before the bonus free throw is in effect.
NOTE: This procedure is used only to establish the alternating-possession procedure. See 6-4 for using the procedure and reversing the possession arrow.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So you don't believe that this part applies in this situation?


RULE 4, SECTION 3 SETTING DIRECTION OF INITIAL ARROW
Alternating-possession control is established and the initial direction of the possession arrow is set toward the opponent's basket when:
ART. 1 . . . A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the free thrower after a common foul when the bonus free throw is in effect.
ART. 3 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after:
a. A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.
b. The free throws for a noncommon foul.
c. A common foul before the bonus free throw is in effect.
NOTE: This procedure is used only to establish the alternating-possession procedure. See 6-4 for using the procedure and reversing the possession arrow.

I go with setting the initial arrow to Team A once B1 has ball at his disposal for throw-in. I would consider that as "A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I go with setting the initial arrow to Team A once B1 has ball at his disposal for throw-in. I would consider that as "A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball."

Really??? You believe that constitutes player control?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I go with setting the initial arrow to Team A once B1 has ball at his disposal for throw-in. I would consider that as "A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball."

I think I agree with this one, too. It can't be as soon as the ball goes through the basket, b/c we could have a foul before the throw-in team has "control" for the inbounds pass.

I also don't like waiting until the ball is controlled inbounds for the same reason. A1 has the ball for the throw-in and A2 commits a common foul before the ball is controlled inbounds. If the arrow doesn't get set until control inbounds, then Team A had the first "possession" of the game (their throw-in opportunity) and they get the arrow (when the ball is given to Team B for the throw-in following the foul). That doesn't seem right to me.

After the FTs for a non-common foul, the arrow is set when the ball is at the disposal of the inbounder for the throw-in. Although there haven't been FTs, this seems like the most reasonable answer to me. And even though there isn't player control or team control during the throw-in, there is "control" in a looser sense of the word. Team A obvously "has the ball" for the throw-in. I just think it makes more sense than waiting for control inbounds.

[bob jenkins]

I agree with those who said it's not covered.

So, I'm using 2-3 to set the arrow toward B's basket -- under the theory that A's score constitutes the first "posession" (an undefined term) and B should have the next AP.

[FrankHtown]

Do you really need possesion to score a goal? A tip is not possesion, and still counts as a goal.

B is getting the first possession after the made basket. Why not give A the arrow?

[agr8zebra]

Poss is not a requirement as team A can put the ball into B's basketball and team B is credited with 2 points. No team B Poss.

Let's revisit the value of the points that will be scored. Is A1's slap of a jumpball toss considered a try for goal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

Let's revisit the value of the points that will be scored. Is A1's slap of a jumpball toss considered a try for goal?

No, but it doesn't matter.

[Gimlet25id]

There's really only 2 ways to set the INITIAL direction of the AP arrow. It all revolves around either a player in control of the ball after the jump. (this would be in all cases where the ball was legally tipped and recovered in bounds) Once its controlled inbounds then the arrow is set to the opposing team:

OR the second;

Would be if no player control was ever gained then you would go to the the throw in. When setting the INITIAL direction, as soon as the ball is @ the disposal of the thrower then the arrow would be set toward the opposing team.

This is completly different then adminstering a AP throw in. All we are doing is setting the initial direction and not doing a AP throw in.

[Gimlet25id]

Has to be three point basket. Doesn't have to be try. Any ball that goes through the basket that is trown or tapped behind the tree point line by the offensive team assuming it doesn't hit anybody on the way will be a three point goal

Case Book 5.2.1 sit.B

[tjones1]

Wow this is some good stuff. I think if this occured, team A would get the AP first, provided team B made a successful throw-in.

Here's what I got:
4-12-6
Neither team control nor player control exist during a dead ball, throw-in, a jump ball, or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

4-3-1 Setting Direction of Initial Arrow
A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball.

4-3-1 is stating player control. However, during a throw-in, this doesn't exist. Therefore, once there is player control after the throw-in, I would say you would set the arrow in the opposite direction of whoever secured control. So if B is making the throw-in and A steals it, under my thinking team B would get the first AP.

That's probably way too much thinking and probably way, way off. But, that's what I've got.

But, I can see going with Bob on this one and using 2-3. Either coach probably wouldn't say a thing if you gave team B the first AP.

Either way, if this occurred, you can bet I'd blow it dead and take care of it ASAP. Fire away...

[OHBBREF]

by definition player control can only exist on the floor holding ot dribbling the ball - and not durring a jump ball -
so you could only set the arrow when the throw-in after the basket is legally completed, the arrow would be set to the other team!

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

by definition player control can only exist on the floor holding ot dribbling the ball - and not durring a jump ball -
so you could only set the arrow when the throw-in after the basket is legally completed, the arrow would be set to the other team!

I have to disagree with this. The throw in doesn't have to be completed in this case. It would in AP throw in's which this isn't one of those.

Rule 4-3 art. 2,3. When setting the INITIAL direction the ball only has to be @ the disposal of the thrower.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I have to disagree with this. The throw in doesn't have to be completed in this case. It would in AP throw in's which this isn't one of those.

Rule 4-3 art. 2,3. When setting the INITIAL direction the ball only has to be @ the disposal of the thrower.

But there aren't any fouls, free throws, or violations. The only thing you've had is 3 points for team A.

[Back In The Saddle]

If it isn't covered by rule, and it appears that it isn't, then look for a precedent. If the jump ball is tapped out of bounds, when is the arrow set? When the ball is at the disposal of the thrower? If there is a common foul during the jump, when is the arrow set? When the ball is at the disposal of the thrower? So why wouldn't you set the arrow after a basket off the jump when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower?