You make the call.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Why is everyone so worried about taking on the responsibility for a coach's screw-up that has got absolutely nothing to do with the officials in the first place?

Keep your nose out of places where it doesn't belong.

That's kind of a cop out answer, JR.

Now tell us how you would handle it, if the situation confronted you during a game. Take the OP situation in which one coach directly addresses you about it. What are you going to do?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's kind of a cop out answer, JR.

Now tell us how you would handle it, if the situation confronted you during a game. Take the OP situation in which one coach directly addresses you about it. What are you going to do?

How is that a cop out answer, Nevada? I'm saying that officials shouldn't ever interject themselves into these stoopid situations that are governed by regulations that have got nothing to do with us. That's my opinion- not a cop-out.

And are you telling me that you don't know what the substitution rules are? Gee, the opposing coach certainly knows the correct applicable rules, doesn't he? Maybe he can train you. He's probably already asking you why the game ain't going on and whether the other coach is going to be charged with a TO because he stopped the game for something that isn't a correctable error.

Of course, if you hadda followed the rules from the git-go and charged the coach with that TO for delaying the game by asking his questions, he could have legally put his sub in anyway at the end of that TO, couldn't he? If a coach doesn't know that he can sub at the end of a TO, then maybe he needs the opposing coach to teach him that too. The opposing coach seems to be the only one in the gym that knows the rules anyway.

[Nevadaref]

Well, JR, I have three things for you:
1. Perhaps we should give Mr. Opposing Coach the whistle and see how he does!

2. I advocated the time-out method in my very first post in this thread. Am I to understand that that is how you would handle it?

3. I cited the technical foul rules for delaying the game by preventing the making of the ball promptly live in my second post in this thread. Are you advocating applying those since the coach's substitution question held up the administration of the throw-in?

[Ignats75]

Rule 2 Section 3

The Referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules.

I agree that I would allow the substitution. Eligibility rules are not part of the NFHS rulebook. Therefore, any reasonable decision made by the Referee would be correct. I was taught in school that there are Correct Decisions; Good Decisions and Right Decisions. This is probably one of those times where there is more than one correct one. In reading these responses, I think that charging the team with a timeout is the Right Call..

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

High School Game

After halftime the first horn has sounded. All 5 players come out to start the 3rd quarter. The second horn sounds . As the offficial is getting ready to administer the throw in, the coach from the "A" team informs the officials that one of the players #32 has already played 6 quarters between the JV and Varsity games and can't play anymore and that he needs to sub # 32. The oppossing coach says that a sub can't be made without penalty because a sub wasn't ready and didn't report before the first horn. What do you do by rule?

Leave it alone, you have no jurisdiction in that situation.

[FrankHtown]

Really. How do you know if Coach A is incorrect and is just working you? Especially if #32 is the star of Team B. I'd leave that alone and let Team A file an official protest with their State Association.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Well, JR, I have three things for you:
1. Perhaps we should give Mr. Opposing Coach the whistle and see how he does!

2. I advocated the time-out method in my very first post in this thread. Am I to understand that that is how you would handle it?

3. I cited the technical foul rules for delaying the game by preventing the making of the ball promptly live in my second post in this thread. Are you advocating applying those since the coach's substitution question held up the administration of the throw-in?

1) I'm in favor of all coaches having to referee a serious game at least once a year....with me critiquing them.

2) Did you ever advocate simply following the existing rules and informing the coach that he wasn't going to be allowed to get a sub in but he was going to be charged with a TO for stopping the game to ask the questions? Getting a sub in after that charged TO kinda follows that course naturally anyway imo, whether you have to tell the coach that he can do that or not.

3) I'd perform a self-orchidectomy on myself before I'd call a technical foul in that situation. Hell, if I even thought of doing so, I'd probably slap myself upside the head.

And the best part is......later you can logically explain what you've done and why you've done it, with all the accompanying little rules citations, to the league/state body, as well as your assignor or rules interpreter... if any of them ask. And....meanwhile, the opposing pissed-off coach hasn't any grounds at all for any kind of a complaint against you.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

3) I'd perform a self-orchidectomy on myself

You'd remove all your own orchids? They're so hard to grow, why would you get rid of them?

[Gimlet25id]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Leave it alone, you have no jurisdiction in that situation.

We can't leave it alone. We have a sub who needs to come in. The question is how to get the sub in legally?

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE=Gimlet25id]

We can't leave it alone. We have a sub who needs to come in. The question is how to get the sub in legally?

And the answer is to use rule 3-3-1.

[Gimlet25id]

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

And the answer is to use rule 3-3-1.

Well thats what we want to use. How ever the was not @ the table before the first warning horn. The opposing coach know that you just can't bring a sub in that hasn't reported unless for injury, blood, contact, uniform. In this case none of this happenned. So in the case book 3.3.1 sit B covers what to do.

Just tell the coach to call a time out and then he can get he sub in. We all know the the 6 Quarter rule isn't in the NFHS book. However if the opposing coach doesn't care about it and thinks that the coach shouldn't have allowed the player to start the quarter then his argument is valid that the official can't just allow a sub in with out a TO being called.

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well thats what we want to use. How ever the was not @ the table before the first warning horn. The opposing coach know that you just can't bring a sub in that hasn't reported unless for injury, blood, contact, uniform. In this case none of this happenned.

Those are all reasons a player is (at least temporarily) not eligible to play. So is the "6 quarters rule". Bring in the sub. Tell the complaining coach to take it up with the conference.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A team must play with five if they have five who are eligible, however there are reasons other than DQ which would make a team member ineligible to enter the game.

For example, a team has only six on the roster. The coach subs in A6 who has four fouls for A2. During the ensuing throw-in and prior to the ball being touched inbounds, A6 is charged with his fifth foul. The clock correctly did not start. Clearly A6 must leave the game, but since no time has come off the clock A2 cannot return to the game. In this situation Team A would have to play with only four players until the next opportunity to substitute. There would be no penalty to Team A for this.

Reminds me of the movie "Hoosiers", player was benched for discipline and when his player fouled out the coach did not allow the last player on the bench to enter. Good Times!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Those are all reasons a player is (at least temporarily) not eligible to play. So is the "6 quarters rule". Bring in the sub. Tell the complaining coach to take it up with the conference.

Finally another vote for common sense.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Reminds me of the movie "Hoosiers", player was benched for discipline and when his player fouled out the coach did not allow the last player on the bench to enter. Good Times!

I had actually just watched Hoosiers the day before I made my post about playing with 4. That's where I got the idea, granted at the time I didn't have my book and couldn't remember if it was allowed for by rule (not something I've spent much time reviewing as I've never had a situation that a coach has wanted to play with only 4 or even been forced to play with 4).