make the call

[tball]

I've been reading these bb and fb forums for 2 years and now i have a situation that I'd like to share. This situation occurred in a varsity HS game last friday. Looking for comments on how to handle-

1st and goal-A ball on B 9 yard line. Team A throws quick out to receiver A2. A2 catches ball w/ knees on goal line inbounds, ball does not cross the plane of goal line. Player A2 then fall out of bounds after catch.

Team A did not call time out, no official killed the clock. The timeskeeper, thinking the ball was in the end zone or out of bounds, stopped the clock w/ two seconds.

How would you proceed?

[Schultj]

In high school, the ball is all that matters in regards to determining a touchdown. NF 8-2-1b

[mikesears]

One of the crew members should have known that the clock was stopped and they should have given the start the clock signal. Everyone needs to be aware of the clock status.

[Schultj]

After reading the second half of your message, I would call the game over if team A had no intention of calling a timeout (they were out, up big, etc.) If the coach definately intended on calling a timeout but didn't because the scoreboard clock stopped, then I would make it clear to him that the clock will start, and I would assume that he would call one then.

[JasonTX]

The official on that side should be giving the "wind the clock" signal as soon as the ball is dead in bounds short of the goalline.

[Theisey]

Someone on the crew has clock responsibility. He should eye the clock after every play when he gets a moment to make sure it is in the correct status.
This is especially true when time is nearing the end of a quarter.

If seen still running but should be stopped, he should note the time while trying to kill the clock. R can put time back on if needed.
If seen stopped but should be running, he should issue the wind signal continually and if it fails to start, R can make a determination of how much time should have come off and adjust it.

With two seconds left and stopped with no timeout called, it would take more than two seconds to spot the ball and get lined up.
R should end the quarter and confer with Team-A if need be, you'll need to if this were at the end of the 2nd or 4th quarter.

Afterwards have a talk with the time keeper on the rules for starting and stopping the clock.

[tball]

Ok-this is exactly what we did, when we looked up and noticed that clock was stopped; we conferred that ball never crossed plain (no TD), receiver down inbounds in non clock stopping situation.

Ended half w/ A in posession at 1 yard line. Coach not happy, but I believe it was the right call.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by tball
Ok-this is exactly what we did, when we looked up and noticed that clock was stopped; we conferred that ball never crossed plain (no TD), receiver down inbounds in non clock stopping situation.

Ended half w/ A in posession at 1 yard line. Coach not happy, but I believe it was the right call.

Excellent call.

On my crew I have the line judge (4-man, aren't we lucky) keep time on the field just in case something happens with the clock operator like this play.

How many crews do the same thing?

[chris s]

Originally posted by Ed Hickland

Excellent call.

On my crew I have the line judge (4-man, aren't we lucky) keep time on the field just in case something happens with the clock operator like this play.

How many crews do the same thing?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
In our 5 man, we have BJ keep the clock, 4 man, LJ. One youth field last season had no field clock, gosh ,those games were quick!!!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by tball
I've been reading these bb and fb forums for 2 years and now i have a situation that I'd like to share. This situation occurred in a varsity HS game last friday. Looking for comments on how to handle-

1st and goal-A ball on B 9 yard line. Team A throws quick out to receiver A2. A2 catches ball w/ knees on goal line inbounds, ball does not cross the plane of goal line. Player A2 then fall out of bounds after catch.

Team A did not call time out, no official killed the clock. The timeskeeper, thinking the ball was in the end zone or out of bounds, stopped the clock w/ two seconds.

How would you proceed?

The Canadian Amateur Ruling:

Under 3 minutes in each half, the clock is stopped after every play. In your play, the ball is dead when the receiver caught the ball with his knees on the ground. At this point, the clock should have been stopped. The clock will start again on the next ready, and there is no requirement to snap the ball before the zeros, there will be one more play no matter what. It will be from the 1y line.

The only issue to deal with is the philosophy of the timer stopping the clock on his own without an official giving the stop-the-clock signal. Was the game called according to the rules set forth in the rule book? Yup. Did the on-field officials screw up? Yup. Did the timer 'break' the un-written law to follow the on-field officials' signals. Yup. You decide what is best here.

Mike

[MD Longhorn]

I worked 3 games on Thursday with no visible clock. 3 man crew, so we had the LJ run it.

The first 2 games were run pretty well I thought. The 3rd was suspect. After the 3rd play of the game, all with stopped clock after the play was dead (kickoff, 40 yard run for TD, kickoff), offense called TO. We asked LJ how much time left. 4:36 (on a 6 minute clock - 7th grade game). We just looked at each other questioningly, and went back to our positions.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
I worked 3 games on Thursday with no visible clock. 3 man crew, so we had the LJ run it.

I don't want to be critical of your mechanics and maybe it was just a mistype on your part but there shouldn't be a LJ on a 3-man crew. If you use the following link http://www.nfhs.org/PDF/Football/ThreeOfficials.pdf it will take you to the NF 3-man crew responsibilities. It was a little hard to find and much less fun to try to use once your used to 4-man and 5-man.

We normally use a running clock during lower level games where there is no field clock. For an 8-minute quarter whoever is timing would put 150% of the time or 12 minutes on his clock and only stop it for timeouts. Only in the 2nd and 4th quarters would we run the clock normally after the 4-minute warning. We have had one guy run the clock normally and another time the same quarter with the running clock and they normally are less than 30 seconds apart at the end of the quarter. That was enough proof for the old-timers who like to run it that way. It sure isn't the greatest way to time a game but they were able to time a game with a second hand on their watch.

[MN BB Ref]

Often times the placement of officials depends on your association. Although the NHFS website does recommend a R, U, and HL for a three man crew, that isn't always the way it will transpire.

For example, through trial and error the association I belong to has determined that it works better using a R, LJ, and HL. I tend to agree with them on that fact as it gives you much better control of the line of scrimmage prior to the snap. The downside of course is that you sacrifice some oversight on the line after the snap...especially when it comes to holding penalties. HOpefully the R is catching those.

[Warrenkicker]

Well I would agree and disagree on some points. If this is a lower level game with little or no passing then use a U. If there is a lot of passing then use LJ. But without the U on a pass then while R is watching QB for late hits linemen are doing who-knows-what. I guess the main point is to avoid 3-man at all costs.

[MD Longhorn]

If it matters, we're NCAA, not NF.

But in Texas, we do use LJ in 3-man, along with HL and R. 3-man crews are usually all that's necessary on 7th and 8th grade games. Usually the 9th and JV's have 4 or 5 men.

In those grade levels, it helps to have an official on both sides to help them on the wings (Move back, move up, etc), and most plays are right up the gut or sweeps. I think we'd suffer more missing a wing on a sweep than we'd gain from having a U.