Call it or not?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

What would you call if she makes contact with another player while swinging her elbows??

If the player had the ball (in this case she does), it would be a player control foul.

[bigdogrunnin]

Thanks Chuck. I didn't realize, until you pointed it out, that my name does indeed imply that I "might" be a "Big Dog." I actually came up with the name while I was coaching Cross Country and Track several years ago, and just continued to use after I left coaching. However, I see now that it does indeed have a NEW application. Thanks . . .

I also had quite a laugh at your response. Thank you for that as well.

As for the swinging elbows AND making contact with an opposing player, would a Technical Foul or Intentional Foul be warranted here? Does it depend on circumstances or the severity of the foul?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

As for the swinging elbows AND making contact with an opposing player, would a Technical Foul or Intentional Foul be warranted here? Does it depend on circumstances or the severity of the foul?

You can't have a technical foul called for any live-ball contact foul. Technical fouls, by definition, are non-contact unsporting fouls or dead-ball contact fouls.

Contact with a thrown elbow could be called either a player-control foul, an intentional personal foul or a flagrant personal foul.

[bigdogrunnin]

Thank you.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

As for the swinging elbows AND making contact with an opposing player, would a Technical Foul or Intentional Foul be warranted here? Does it depend on circumstances or the severity of the foul?

It doesn't depend on the severity of the act. A technical foul would have to occur during a dead ball in this situation. It could be an intentional or flagrant foul. It just depends how you viewed the act of the player. See 4-19 (p. 32).

Edit: Or see JR, since he clearly beat me!

[Chess Ref]

Teaching moment here for me. So if we have two knuckleheads going at it while the ball is live we have a flagrant personal foul.

Can't find last years rulebook to look this up. What signal would I use for a flagrant personal foul ? What are the penaltys for personal flagrant fouls ?

[Ignats75]

Arms crossed is the signal for both intentional and flagerant fouls. I've only called 2 flagerant fouls in 4 years. Lots of Intentional ones though. Who wants to do all the paperwork with the state association for the ejections.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Arms crossed is the signal for both intentional and flagerant fouls.

Um, no. There is no approved signal for a flagrant foul, whether it's a personal or technical flagrant foul. The one most commonly used is the ol' umpire's heave-ho signal. The crossed-arms signal is for intentional fouls only.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Can't find last years rulebook to look this up. What signal would I use for a flagrant personal foul ? What are the penaltys for personal flagrant fouls ?

As per post above, there is no official signal for a flagrant foul. You either verbalize it or you can give the beisbol umpire's heave-ho signal.
The penalty is always disqualification. If it's part of a double flagrant foul, no foul shots for either flagrant foul and go to the POI.