The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 07:06pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Call it or not?

Middle school girls AAU. A situation came up that made me think about the violation for swinging the elbows.

A4 had a habit of grabbing the rebound (or a loose ball) with both hands and then extending her elbows while taking a good solid swing into nothing. Oddly enough, she was only doing this when no one was around. Partner and I discussed it and figured we'd call it if she did it in traffic. She did it later in traffic, and he called it (okay, I was peeking, and my whistle blew, too.)

Anyway, in hind sight, I'm thinking we probably should have jumped on it early while no one was around rather than wait for her to come close to busting someone else in the chops.

What say you?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 07:19pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Middlke school girls? Warn her first....and explain to her why you are warning her.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 23, 2006, 07:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Middlke school girls? Warn her first....and explain to her why you are warning her.
AAU Middlke schools girls?

Tell her coach to make her knock it off. Explain nothing. T him up when he tells you they aint playing chess out there.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 10:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 359
Warn . . . explain the violation, move on. Next time, call the violation. What would you call if she makes contact with another player while swinging her elbows??
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 10:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,910
Adam! You're still around! Good to see you posting again. I agree. Tell the girl or the coach what she's doing wrong and then take care of it if they don't. Don't forget that you can call the elbow swinging a violation as well as a common and technical foul, but I'm sure you thought of that.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 10:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,910
Oops, I didn't really read the other posts before I jumped in. Obviously you're already discussing this being a violation. Sorry, I'm getting ready for parent-teacher conferences and multi-tasking.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 10:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
I'm with Jurassic on this one. Have a subtle discussion with her that nobody else knows you are having (you know how insecure and easily embarrassed those middle-schoolers can be) and move on.
__________________
"To learn, you have to listen. To improve, you have to try." (Thomas Jefferson)
Z
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 11:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin
. . .
Wait a minute!! "Big Dog Runnin' "?!?! Can a person join the forum and just declare himself/herself one of the Big Dogs? What are this person's qualifications to be a Big Dog?

On the upside, at least now when somebody cries about being mistreated by the forum's big dogs, we'll know who they're complaining about.

Hey Big Dog, I'm just kidding around. Welcome to the forum.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 11:08am
M.A.S.H.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin
What would you call if she makes contact with another player while swinging her elbows??
If the player had the ball (in this case she does), it would be a player control foul.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 11:12am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 359
Thanks Chuck. I didn't realize, until you pointed it out, that my name does indeed imply that I "might" be a "Big Dog." I actually came up with the name while I was coaching Cross Country and Track several years ago, and just continued to use after I left coaching. However, I see now that it does indeed have a NEW application. Thanks . . .

I also had quite a laugh at your response. Thank you for that as well.

As for the swinging elbows AND making contact with an opposing player, would a Technical Foul or Intentional Foul be warranted here? Does it depend on circumstances or the severity of the foul?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 11:19am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

As for the swinging elbows AND making contact with an opposing player, would a Technical Foul or Intentional Foul be warranted here? Does it depend on circumstances or the severity of the foul?
You can't have a technical foul called for any live-ball contact foul. Technical fouls, by definition, are non-contact unsporting fouls or dead-ball contact fouls.

Contact with a thrown elbow could be called either a player-control foul, an intentional personal foul or a flagrant personal foul.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 11:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 359
Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 11:25am
M.A.S.H.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin
As for the swinging elbows AND making contact with an opposing player, would a Technical Foul or Intentional Foul be warranted here? Does it depend on circumstances or the severity of the foul?
It doesn't depend on the severity of the act. A technical foul would have to occur during a dead ball in this situation. It could be an intentional or flagrant foul. It just depends how you viewed the act of the player. See 4-19 (p. 32).

Edit: Or see JR, since he clearly beat me!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 12:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,158
Jurassic Ref

Teaching moment here for me. So if we have two knuckleheads going at it while the ball is live we have a flagrant personal foul.

Can't find last years rulebook to look this up. What signal would I use for a flagrant personal foul ? What are the penaltys for personal flagrant fouls ?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 24, 2006, 01:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Posts: 710
Arms crossed is the signal for both intentional and flagerant fouls. I've only called 2 flagerant fouls in 4 years. Lots of Intentional ones though. Who wants to do all the paperwork with the state association for the ejections.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ASA OBS call then no call leads to ejection DaveASA/FED Softball 28 Mon Jul 12, 2004 03:52pm
To call or not to call foul ball DaveASA/FED Softball 11 Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:47am
More Pacers/Pistons call/no call OverAndBack Basketball 36 Thu Jun 03, 2004 07:01pm
Good Call / Bad Call whiskers_ump Softball 29 Fri Mar 28, 2003 09:35am
Does one call relate to the last call? Tee Basketball 28 Thu Feb 13, 2003 05:53pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1