Men's vs. Women's

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I don't think it was meant in a derogatory fashion, Mick. I think he's saying that officiating Women's basketball is just as important and just as much of an accomplishment as working Men's ball; even if some Men's officials might not agree with that.

That is exactly what I meant by that statement. Some men's officials look down at women's officials as second rate and being a women's official I take offense to that. I have worked very hard and attended numerous camps to climb up the college officiating ladder. The women's side can also be quite competitive to get hired, the camps I attend have anywhere from 150-175 officials in attendance. If you choose men’s or women’s basketball just be proud that you are a college basketball official, some officials never get work a varsity game let alone a NCAA D3, D2, or D1 game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

That is exactly what I meant by that statement. Some men's officials look down at women's officials as second rate and being a women's official I take offense to that. I have worked very hard and attended numerous camps to climb up the college officiating ladder. The women's side can also be quite competitive to get hired, the camps I attend have anywhere from 150-175 officials in attendance. If you choose men’s or women’s basketball just be proud that you are a college basketball official, some officials never get work a varsity game let alone a NCAA D3, D2, or D1 game.

If you are that concerned with what people think about you, then that is a problem all by itself. You are never going to change how people view one side or the other. I worked a tournament that happened to be associated with a Women's D1 camp. I was working games for pay next to games that were apart of the camp. I heard officials get so defensive when you I told them I did not work Women's basketball. I heard comments like, "Women's basketball is the real basketball the way Naismith wanted the game to be called." Or comments like, "We use the NBA mechanics and you are still living in the past." No matter what you say officials are very territorial about which side they work. I will say this, most the Women's officials that I know as a whole tend to be less experienced then their Men's official’s counterparts. I know female officials that worked college within their 2 and 3 years of overall officiating that have D3 experience. I have been working 10 years and I have yet to get a shot at the D3 level along with many other officials I have worked with. And the JUCO conference I work, I am by far one of the least experienced officials around. You have to be confident in your own ability and your own choice. This is why this is completely a personal choice and you cannot officiate one side or the other based on what others are thinking.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you are that concerned with what people think about you, then that is a problem all by itself. You are never going to change how people view one side or the other. I worked a tournament that happened to be associated with a Women's D1 camp. I was working games for pay next to games that were apart of the camp. I heard officials get so defensive when you I told them I did not work Women's basketball. I heard comments like, "Women's basketball is the real basketball the way Naismith wanted the game to be called." Or comments like, "We use the NBA mechanics and you are still living in the past." No matter what you say officials are very territorial about which side they work. I will say this, most the Women's officials that I know as a whole tend to be less experienced then their Men's official’s counterparts. I know female officials that worked college within their 2 and 3 years of overall officiating that have D3 experience. I have been working 10 years and I have yet to get a shot at the D3 level along with many other officials I have worked with. And the JUCO conference I work, I am by far one of the least experienced officials around. You have to be confident in your own ability and your own choice. This is why this is completely a personal choice and you cannot officiate one side or the other based on what others are thinking.

Peace

JRut,

So you were at the ABOC Camp in Elgin, IL?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

JRut,

So you were at the ABOC Camp in Elgin, IL?

I was at the Nike Cup for two days (in July) in Schaumburg at the Sport Center. I have no idea what camp it was, I was not a camper. I did talk to campers and I also knew some of them personally and there were sites at Elgin and one other place I do not remember. I just know it was run by Patty Broderick from all accounts.

Peace

[tomegun]

Rut,
I know a girl who might have been at that camp. She moved to Vegas 4 seasons ago and had to work at getting varsity games. She recently moved to Indianapolis because she is now in several conferences and had 70 D1 games this season the last time I talked to her.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Rut,
I know a girl who might have been at that camp. She moved to Vegas 4 seasons ago and had to work at getting varsity games. She recently moved to Indianapolis because she is now in several conferences and had 70 D1 games this season the last time I talked to her.

I did not work with any campers. Everyone I worked with was getting paid and we worked 2 man for all of our games. There were officials there that were all over the country. Patty assigns officials from all over the country in several conferences.

Another reason Women's basketball is very different from Men's basketball, is the fact that the people that assign Division 1 Conferences in Women's basketball can impress basically one person and they are in. In Men's Basketball you have to impress one person per conference. The one person that I am aware of that has multiple conferences similar to the system in Women's basketball is Dale Kelley. This affects greatly who moves up and who does not.

Peace

[TerpZebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will say this, most the Women's officials that I know as a whole tend to be less experienced then their Men's official’s counterparts. I know female officials that worked college within their 2 and 3 years of overall officiating that have D3 experience. I have been working 10 years and I have yet to get a shot at the D3 level along with many other officials I have worked with. And the JUCO conference I work, I am by far one of the least experienced officials around.

As a young women's official (27 year old male, been doing DII, JUCO, NAIA for 3 years), I have to agree that the women's side in my area tends to hire referees with less experience than the men's counterparts. Although, I must emphasize that it is 100% based on their ability to officiate women's basketball. They don't care if you've been ref'ing for 3 months, 3 years, or 30 years, if you can do the job the way they ask you to do it, you will be hired. I agree with this philosophy completely. When I am ref'ing with a crew, I don't care how long they have officiated, I just want to make sure they handle their business for the entire 40 minutes we are on the court.

Of course, the lack of experience can cause an issue. There are certain situations I have never seen before that I really need to handle before I'm put into the wrong situation. I'm working on seeing as many plays as possible!

I chose to referee college women's basketball because the 2 other young guys in my high school association were in D-I women's. I liked their mechanics and gave it a try. Since I've been in, I have not regretted one minute of it. I am fortunate enough to live in an area with a lot of great college women's officials who are there for support and encouragement. Also, the JUCO women's basketball here in the panhandle of Florida is probably the best in the nation. There have been times where 5 of the 6 teams in the league have been ranked in the top 25 in the nation (including #1 and #3). Conference games are wars and you have to work your a$$ off. From other D-I officials, I have heard that it is as good, if not better than most of the lower level D-I games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TerpZebra

Although, I must emphasize that it is 100% based on their ability to officiate women's basketball.

How do you know that? I have never known someone to be hired on anything just based on only one factor. There has to be other factors if you really really think about it. I do not know a single college official that is hired without some factors outside of their ability being a factor being considered (geography, job availability, look, experience, gender, race, recommendations).

Peace

[TerpZebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How do you know that? I have never known someone to be hired on anything just based on only one factor. There has to be other factors if you really really think about it. I do not know a single college official that is hired without some factors outside of their ability being a factor being considered (geography, job availability, look, experience, gender, race, recommendations).

Peace

You're right Rut, I was being slightly over dramatic with the 100% and the BOLD. The list you mentioned, definitely factor in. A better way to phrase it would be that years of experience are not a major factor, IMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TerpZebra

You're right Rut, I was being slightly over dramatic with the 100% and the BOLD. The list you mentioned, definitely factor in. A better way to phrase it would be that years of experience are not a major factor, IMO.

Well it is clear that years of experience on the Women’s side do not seem to be a huge factor. I cannot disagree with that observation at all.

Peace

[jbduke]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How do you know that? I have never known someone to be hired on anything just based on only one factor. There has to be other factors if you really really think about it. I do not know a single college official that is hired without some factors outside of their ability being a factor being considered (geography, job availability, look, experience, gender, race, recommendations).

Peace

Oh, grief, Rut. I mean, really. "Being able to officiate" is one phrase, but it is not really just one "factor." It includes play-calling, game management (which includes communication skills and rules knowledge, among many other "factors"), fitness/image, and many other "factors." Are you just looking to jump on something?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jbduke

Are you just looking to jump on something?

It looks like you are trying to jump on something. The person that I was talking to (which was not you BTW) seemed to get my point rather clearly. Then backed off and clarified their position.

For the record, officials that work college ball (especially at the D1 level) are always going to be hired for reasons outside their actual officiating on the court.

Peace