Women's bonus ?

Bart Tyson · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 09:40am

Both teams in bonus. Play#1; A1 releases the ball on a throwin, B1 touches the ball then A2 fouls B2. My understanding is B2 goes to the line for FT's. Play#2; A1 releases the ball on a throwin, before anyone touches the ball A2 fouls B2. Again my understanding is, Team control foul, no shots, team B gets the ball for a throwin. All i can find in the rule book is player possession on throwin. Please help find in the rule book where the team control continues after the release until someone touches the ball.

rockyroad · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 10:32am

You are correct in both plays...however, you won't find it in the rule book - at least not spelled out in black and white like you are looking for...the key is that the new rule applies to the team in possession for a throw-in, and then go back to the definitions of when a throw-in ends...the throw-in ends when it is touched by or touches a player on the court...so in your Play #1, the throw-in had ended, but no one had team control, so we have a common foul and will shoot the bonus...in Play #2, the throw-in has not ended, and so we still have "possession of the ball for a throw-in" and so we will not shoot...the way it was explained at our meeting was that if the shot clock/game clock are running (which happens as soon as ball is touched on throw-in), then there must be actual control - if they aren't running, then the throw-in is still continuing...hope this helps...

Bart Tyson · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 10:36am

Thank you, that is the answer i want.

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 11:32am

This is an NCAA rule, not just one for the Women's side.

Peace

#5 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 11:43am

So this rule is just for NCAA? Does this apply to the same situation in a NFHS game? Just curious because this doesn't quite sound right and I can't find anything that backs this up.

Thanks.

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 11:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Blum
So this rule is just for NCAA? Does this apply to the same situation in a NFHS game? Just curious because this doesn't quite sound right and I can't find anything that backs this up.

Thanks.

This is a new rule for NCAA this year only. Not at all a NF rule. But it might be in the future, just not today.

Peace

hawkk · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 12:17pm

Is it just me, or does this make a really odd glitch in the offensive foul rule? Are officials going to get around the time gap on the throw in by calling it as before it was touched or after it was controlled to avoid the oddity? Or is there a greater rationale that I'm missing?

rockyroad · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 12:39pm

The rationale is to try to make all "offensive" fouls have the same punishment...why should an illegal screen result in free throws while a push-off by the dribbler doesn't??? This way, any foul by the team in control of the ball results in loss of the ball, no free throws...as far as the "getting around the time-gap", I've only worked scrimmages and camps so far, but that really hasn't been a problem...I suppose it could be, but it really isn't that complicated...

hawkk · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 01:33pm

I understand the rationale for the rule in general -- it's a great improvement, IMHO.

Maybe I'm wrong about the oddity, but here's where I think it is: A1 throws in to A2, who bobbles the ball, then picks it up. As I read the discussion above, if A2 fouls B2 before the ball is touched, no bonus, and if A2 fouls B2 after the ball is picked up, no bonus. BUT if A2 fouls B2 after A1 touches the ball, but before it is controlled by A1, then the bonus applies. One could say that is the consequence of not catching the ball cleanly, or could ignore that gap in time and just call the offensive foul, no bonus. I was curious how folks would handle that situation.

bigwhistle · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 05, 2002, 02:02pm

This is a portion of an email to Barb Jacobs about this issue. Hopefully it will help you understand what the powers that be want.
====================================
Barb,
I am now confused about Team Control during a throw in. As I understood the definition from the Dallas meeting, for a throw-in there is:

(1) Team control when the ball is in possession of the thrower. If in bonus, no shots if throw-in team commits a common foul. Spot throw-in to offended team.
(2) No Team Control while the ball is in-flight, untouched by a player on the court. If in bonus, shots for offended team if throw-in team commits a common foul.
(3) No Team Control once legally touched by a player on the court. If in bonus, shots to offended team for a common foul. .
(4) Team Control once possession is established by a player on the court. If in bonus, no shots if possessing team commits a common foul. Spot throw-in to offended team.

Barbs reply:

No, you really do not have it correct. Your #1 is correct but #2 is not. The throw-in is not complete until it touches someone on the court (4-13.4) and this ball has not been touched yet so there is team control and there would be no foul shots. #3 and #4 are correct. Hope that helps you.
Barbara

rockyroad · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 07, 2002, 10:57am

First real game last night after multiple scrimmages...had this exact play: white has ball oob for throw-in...I bounce ball to player, she throws long pass down-court...partner calls illegal screenon white 32 at about half-court ...he (partner) wants them to line-up since it's the 8th foul...I talk him out of it based on the new rule about the possession for throw-in...took some convincing, but he believed me...sad thing is, both coaches knew it and understood it better tham this partner did...sigh...