Backcourt violation?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think that you are making an assumption that is not true (more people will be watching the dribbler beating his man on offense than will be watching the player in the backcourt with no defensive pressure). I would include the covering official in this statement. For example, if there's no pressure, I'm not paying much attention to the dribbler -- I'm looking up court to see if there will be a trap, or if the offense is setting a screen that I'll need to monitor. I'm looking for the "next competitive matchup." When the dribbler is on offense, I'm looking intently at the dribbler and at the defender.

In addition, I will give the benefit of the doubt to the player in the backcourt (although I might say something to him quietly), but not to the player using the move to actually beat his man.

I'm talking about plays where there is no doubt at all that the dribbler ended his dribble, either by palming or touching the ball with both hands, and then dribbled again. If there was any doubt at all, personally I'm not gonna call anything in the first place- no matter where it occurred.

And, to make myself totally clear(hopefully), the assumption that I'm making is that the calling official definitely sees an obvious violation, but then chooses to ignore it.

An illegal second dribble does not depend on how the first dribble ended; it depends on whether the first dribble actually did end or not.

[zebraman]

I know it's obvious, but there isn't going to be any consensus reached on a philosophical question like this one.

For me, in a high school game, I'm probably going to call an obvious palm, even if the dribbler isn't being defended. At the JC level, I'm not.

[rockyroad]

Since Dan brought in the baseball reference, I'll throw in a football one...sweep play to left side...runner is already 5 yards downfield and on the left sideline. Right tackle is holding the defensive end 15 yards away from the play. White Hat does not throw flag...was it a hold? Yep...did it have any impact on the play or the game? Nope...

Isn't that the same idea being used here on these violations...understand I am not voting for or against this philosophy, just pointing out that it is used in all sports, not just basketball...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Since Dan brought in the baseball reference, I'll throw in a football one...sweep play to left side...runner is already 5 yards downfield and on the left sideline. Right tackle is holding the defensive end 15 yards away from the play. White Hat does not throw flag...was it a hold? Yep...did it have any impact on the play or the game? Nope...

Isn't that the same idea being used here on these violations...

Nope, think right tackle going offside on a sweep around the left end instead. Football uses the same concepts. You can call some fouls by using advantage/disadvantage. Other fouls however must be called because they are so obvious, even if they don't really affect the play.