Backcourt violation?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Well, I started this thread and it has somehow morphed into something very different from what I asked about. In any case, let me say a couple things.

1) Pete Palermino is an excellent official at the D1 level. He's also a very humble person, never bragging about his accomplishments. Most of you will never know him, obviously, but if you get the chance, he's worth listening to.

Well, you left one thing out of your response. Chuck, you are an IAABO Board Interpreter also, same as Mr. Palermino. What are your thoughts on the Board #6 Way as apparently taught by Mr. Palermino- i.e. that all violations should be called by advantage/disadvantage? Agree? Disagree?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, you left one thing out of your response. Chuck, you are an IAABO Board Interpreter also, same as Mr. Palermino. What are your thoughts on the Board #6 Way as apparently taught by Mr. Palermino- i.e. that all violations should be called by advantage/disadvantage? Agree? Disagree?

1) I don't really know if BillyMac's description of "the Board 6 way" is accurate.

2) I don't know if Pete really does advocate BillyMac's description of the Board 6 way. I would not presume to speak for him, particularly on an intenet forum.

3) I would not agree that ALL violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, line violations such as OOB.)

4) I would agree that SOME violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, palming/carrying.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

1) I don't really know if BillyMac's description of "the Board 6 way" is accurate.

2) I don't know if Pete really does advocate BillyMac's description of the Board 6 way. I would not presume to speak for him, particularly on an intenet forum.

3) I would not agree that ALL violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, line violations such as OOB.)

4) I would agree that SOME violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, palming/carrying.)

I won't comment on #1 or #2 either because of a lack of any kind of actual knowledge.

(3)- You and I agree on that one.

(4) You and I probably agree on that one, even though we don't agree on some of the details. Personally I think that you gotta be consistent in calling palming/carrying all over the court, and I guess that the FED must kinda agree also, having made it a POE in the past. How do you answer the player that says "Why now? I've been doing it all game". Do you respond "Yes, you were palming the other times but I didn't think that it shoulda been called then". Now....3-seconds....10-seconds for a free thrower...maybe a fisted ball...fine. All violations---> never imo. Another point......I really don't think that you can teach official how to use this type of judgment. I think that it has to be learned through experience, and some officials never will learn it.... no matter what. Jmo.

[BktBallRef]

I don't think BillyMac would have face quite as much opposition to some of his thoughts if his entire demeanor didn't come across as so arrogant. "We were the first..." "...Board 6 Way."

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How do you answer the player that says "Why now? I've been doing it all game". Do you respond "Yes, you were palming the other times but I didn't think that it shoulda been called then".

That's easy. "This time, it got you a clean look at the basket."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

That's easy. "This time, it got you a clean look at the basket."

Chuck, if a player ended his dribble by touching the ball with both hands, and then dribbled again, would you also not call that if there was no pressure/backcourt? And if a coach/player asked you about it, would you still say "No call. It didn't get him a clean look at the basket"?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Chuck, if a player ended his dribble by touching the ball with both hands, and then dribbled again, would you also not call that if there was no pressure/backcourt?

Nope. Call it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Nope. Call it.

Aw geeze, now you got me even more confused than usual.

A dribble ends when the ball is palmed/carried by the dribbler or the dribbler touches the ball with both hands. In both cases, if the player dribbles again, it is a violation for an illegal second dribble. But.....under similar circumstances--i.e. in the backcourt with no defensive pressure, you would let the violation go in one case but not the other.

Could you please explain to my uneducated mind just exactly what your rationale is for doing so? They are the exact same violation, by rule, aren't they? What is the difference