Player control/Blocking foul?

[RonRef]

I think if most of us see this play live and not in writing we call it a blocking foul.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by RonRef

I think if most of us see this play live and not in writing we call it a blocking foul.

Not me!! It's true that a lot of refs have trouble with B/C and tend to bail with an easier blocking call, but that doesn't make it the right call. Whoever is behind is almost always at fault, just like in driving. It's really very simple.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Not me!! It's true that a lot of refs have trouble with B/C and tend to bail with an easier blocking call, but that doesn't make it the right call. Whoever is behind is almost always at fault, just like in driving. It's really very simple.

I think if we had 100 guys in a room and showed this play on video it maybe split down the middle 50-50 block/charge!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by RonRef

I think if we had 100 guys in a room ....

Well, there's your problem right there. You're working with a bunch of good ol' boys. If you are using current up to date refs, there'll be a least a few women, and the group over all will be more likely to call the play correctly.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Well, there's your problem right there. You're working with a bunch of good ol' boys. If you are using current up to date refs, there'll be a least a few women, and the group over all will be more likely to call the play correctly.

Rainmaker: That is funny, since I work women's ball I am usually working with one or more female officials. I really have a hard problem with a big "lug" standing under the hoop and giving the foul to the offense (NF it is still by rule a charge). He is not playing defense under the hoop and where is the offensive player supposed to go?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by RonRef

Rainmaker: That is funny, since I work women's ball I am usually working with one or more female officials. I really have a hard problem with a big "lug" standing under the hoop and giving the foul to the offense (NF it is still by rule a charge). He is not playing defense under the hoop and where is the offensive player supposed to go?

The offensive player is supposed to go someplace where there isn't another person standing! There's nothing anywhere in the rule book that gives the shooter the right to run up an opponent's back. I sincerely hope you are just yanking some chains, but it doesn't matter. Someone else can take this battle on. I'm going away for the weekend to relax a little and enjoy some beautiful coastal scenery. I hope you enjoy your Jr. Hi basketball season!

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The offensive player is supposed to go someplace where there isn't another person standing! There's nothing anywhere in the rule book that gives the shooter the right to run up an opponent's back. I sincerely hope you are just yanking some chains, but it doesn't matter. Someone else can take this battle on. I'm going away for the weekend to relax a little and enjoy some beautiful coastal scenery. I hope you enjoy your Jr. Hi basketball season!

You are telling me that there aren't any other officials out there that pass on charges when the defender is right under the basket? Why does everyone need to get personal on this site when someone disagrees with someone else’s "opinion?" By the way I need a partner for my Jr. High game on Saturday, are you open to work with me?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RonRef

I really have a hard problem with a big "lug" standing under the hoop and giving the foul to the offense (NF it is still by rule a charge). He is not playing defense under the hoop and where is the offensive player supposed to go?

I'll answer that one...

The offense is suppose to pull up for a short jumper or go to the side. Hmmm, sounds like the defender IS playing defense...forcing the shooter to take a path different than desired (and a slightly more difficult shot).

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Not me!! It's true that a lot of refs have trouble with B/C and tend to bail with an easier blocking call, but that doesn't make it the right call. Whoever is behind is almost always at fault, just like in driving. It's really very simple.

I agree Rain! Another reason we miss the offensive/block call is that most officials center his/her attention on the offensive player and do not expand his/her vision to include the defensive players. If we all would take a "trail mentality" on the floor (not looking at just A1-B1) and look at the plays that may be coming our way, we would rarely miss these calls!

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by RonRef

I think if most of us see this play live and not in writing we call it a blocking foul.

Why?

You wouldn't allow somebody to push an opponent from behind during rebounding action to get a put-back. Why would you allow a player to push somebody from behind for the initial shot? That doesn't make much sense to me.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Why?

You wouldn't allow somebody to push an opponent from behind during rebounding action to get a put-back. Why would you allow a player to push somebody from behind for the initial shot? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Like any block/charge it is tough to comment when we actually don't see the play! If I see the paly I may indeed call it a Charge!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Why?

You wouldn't allow somebody to push an opponent from behind during rebounding action to get a put-back. Why would you allow a player to push somebody from behind for the initial shot? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Maybe because some tend to view a push in the back on a rebound differently than this particular play, even more so if A1 runs into B1 as he's dunking the ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RonRef

I think if most of us see this play live and not in writing we call it a blocking foul.

Disagree. I think that most officials actually know the rules and would get it right.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by RonRef

I think if most of us see this play live and not in writing we call it a blocking foul.

Timing is an issue for me here. If the player turned his back and then it was a turn, bang situation, I might see it as a block. If player was already stationary with back to player driving its definately Player control.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Timing is an issue for me here. If the player turned his back and then it was a turn, bang situation, I might see it as a block. If player was already stationary with back to player driving its definately Player control.

Why? There's no rules prerequisite that the player has to be stationary that I know of. They can't be moving towards the dribbler/shooter. And both the NCAA and NFHS rules say that the defender can legally turn or duck to protect themselves from imminent contact-- NCAA rule 4-33-6(g) and NFHS rule 4-23-3(g).