Was there a resolution in Kentucky?

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

The story, as I was told from insiders, involoved heavy competition to get the high profile game Saturday nite.

The official that sued wanted the bigger (5A) games than what he got assigned.

He "discovered" that the officials assigned to the "high profile" game were both alumni of one of the schools playing. He challanged that wanting to get the game and - as I understand - even went to the coach of the other team with this information. The Coach called the assigner and complained too.

It was the Friday nite before the Regional finals and the Chapter President - what was assigned the big 5A game (and an alumni of one of the schools) was told the other official was "making noise" and he confronted him after the semi final games friday game in the locker room.

The argument got heated and spilled into the stands with both in street clothes and both were escorted out of the arena.

The Chapter president admitted later that yes, he approached the ref earlier in the locker room and brought the subject up and apologized.

After this encounter the assigner pulled AT LEAST the first official's Saturday game (I don't know if he pulled the Presidents schedule for the big 5A game too). The official showed up anyway Saturday to ref the lower schools with a court order he could not be removed by the assinger.

That game was cancelled as a result.

The case was driopped when the association showed the court that the assigner has the sole right and discrecion to assign and replace in these games for any reason.

The assigner was not directly accused in anything but resigned nonetheless.

Correct except for one or two points: 1) We don't have basketball classifications in KY. 2) The official in question that brought up the "alumni" question happened to be friends with one of the assistant coaches at that school as well. Granted that one should not officiate games at a HS he/she went to, but in college ball, we have a 10 year waiting period (in some places) and then we can go to that school. I do not see the problem in sending an alum to a game. IF the official has the integrity to do so, I see no problem with it. At that crucial time, the assigning secretary had the confidence that no bias would come up.

The guy that sued just wanted that game because of the other things I mentioned in a previous post. Not the game "him"! It is all about "him"!

[bgtg19]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

The official in question that brought up the "alumni" question happened to be friends with one of the assistant coaches at that school as well. Granted that one should not officiate games at a HS he/she went to, but in college ball, we have a 10 year waiting period (in some places) and then we can go to that school. I do not see the problem in sending an alum to a game. IF the official has the integrity to do so, I see no problem with it. At that crucial time, the assigning secretary had the confidence that no bias would come up.

FWIW, I disagree that it is O.K. to send an alum (or a friend of someone on the coaching staff) to work playoff games involving that school. I fully believe that there are officials capable of working those games without bias or influence, but the whole point is to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest. Depending on how desperate a local area is for quality officials, it may be necessary for longer-term alums (etc.) to work regular season games -- although I think every effort should be made to avoid that as well -- but it will serve officiating and the game of basketball better if we avoid the appearance of conflicts, not just the conflicts that make themselves evident.

[truerookie]

The Kentucky debacle is something to learn from. IMO, just be grateful to get those typegames.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

Correct except for one or two points: 1) We don't have basketball classifications in KY. 2) The official in question that brought up the "alumni" question happened to be friends with one of the assistant coaches at that school as well. Granted that one should not officiate games at a HS he/she went to, but in college ball, we have a 10 year waiting period (in some places) and then we can go to that school. I do not see the problem in sending an alum to a game. IF the official has the integrity to do so, I see no problem with it. At that crucial time, the assigning secretary had the confidence that no bias would come up.

I disagree completely.

When the playoffs arrive, we don't even work the same teams we see all year. All officials travel to arbitrary sites to officiate teams they do not workj during the regular season. And they sent an alum from a HS to work his former school's game in the state tourney? Sorry but that's just assinine.

It really has nothing to with whether he would be biased or not. I'm sure he wouldn't. But it's all about the "apopearance" of bias or a conflict of interest. There are other games. They should have looked for a way to move him off that game and to another one at the same level of the playoffs. That's just plain stupid and it's asking for trouble.

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I disagree completely.

When the playoffs arrive, we don't even work the same teams we see all year. All officials travel to arbitrary sites to officiate teams they do not workj during the regular season. And they sent an alum from a HS to work his former school's game in the state tourney? Sorry but that's just assinine.

It really has nothing to with whether he would be biased or not. I'm sure he wouldn't. But it's all about the "apopearance" of bias or a conflict of interest. There are other games. They should have looked for a way to move him off that game and to another one at the same level of the playoffs. That's just plain stupid and it's asking for trouble.

Seems you think the glass is half empty too huh?

There are people who can put his/her personal feeling aside and call an objective game. I know if I ever had the chance to go to my old HS and do a game, I would. I have been back to my Alma Mater in college as well and had no qualms about going there and called the game down the middle (as I always do)!

So please do not condem the people that have a hard enough job as it is. There was a good reason those officials were chosen for the assignment!

One other thing, please get a dictionary or use "spell check".

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

One other thing, please get a dictionary or use "spell check".

Hey!! There's only room in this forum for one annoying spelling guy. . .

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Hey!! There's only room in this forum for one annoying spelling guy. . .

Barely enough room...and that's even knowing he doesn't take up much space.

Kevzebra - the issue isn't whether we can put aside our personal feelings. I think almost all of us can. It is the appearance of possible favoritism. Let's say you do go work that game at your alma mater. And there's a close call at the end of the game that goes against the visitors. When the visiting coach finds out you went to the home school, you've just put your assignor in a bad spot of trying to explain how objective you really are. Why put him/her in that spot? Perception becomes reality, so if someone perceives you as biased because of your past affiliation, then you are. I was just recently picked up by a conference that includes my wife's alma mater. She graduated from there over 25 years ago, and has not been active in any school functions, other than going to a class reunion several years ago. Even with that, I informed my assignor about this and let him make the decision as to whether I can work any games involving that school. It so happens he doesn't have an issue with it, so if there is a problem down the road, he can defend me, or decide to take me off any other games with that school.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

It is the appearance of possible favoritism. Let's say you do go work that game at your alma mater. And there's a close call at the end of the game that goes against the visitors. When the visiting coach finds out you went to the home school, you've just put your assignor in a bad spot of trying to explain how objective you really are. Why put him/her in that spot?

Well said.

I tried not to take up much space with that reply.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Well said.

I tried not to take up much space with that reply.

Don't feel bad, Chuck. You take up a small spot in all of our hearts...

[JRutledge]

People think we are bias even when we are not no matter what the issues are. Just because there is an "appearance" of bias, does not make it a valid issue. People think if you live in a certain town, you must have a bias toward the team in the town you live. I have a better relationship with people that are not working at my old HS and if the right person did a probe they would come up with a conflict there as well. I have worked games with people I went to HS or college with and no one even knows I knew them very well. I think we worry too much about what people think.

Peace

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

People think we are bias even when we are not no matter what the issues are. Just because there is an "appearance" of bias, does not make it a valid issue. People think if you live in a certain town, you must have a bias toward the team in the town you live. I have a better relationship with people that are not working at my old HS and if the right person did a probe they would come up with a conflict there as well. I have worked games with people I went to HS or college with and no one even knows I knew them very well. I think we worry too much about what people think.

Peace

AMEN! The only person I have to please with my officiating is myself and my supervisor. As long as we are happy, the rest is gravy!

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Barely enough room...and that's even knowing he doesn't take up much space.

Kevzebra - the issue isn't whether we can put aside our personal feelings. I think almost all of us can. It is the appearance of possible favoritism. Let's say you do go work that game at your alma mater. And there's a close call at the end of the game that goes against the visitors. When the visiting coach finds out you went to the home school, you've just put your assignor in a bad spot of trying to explain how objective you really are. Why put him/her in that spot? Perception becomes reality, so if someone perceives you as biased because of your past affiliation, then you are. I was just recently picked up by a conference that includes my wife's alma mater. She graduated from there over 25 years ago, and has not been active in any school functions, other than going to a class reunion several years ago. Even with that, I informed my assignor about this and let him make the decision as to whether I can work any games involving that school. It so happens he doesn't have an issue with it, so if there is a problem down the road, he can defend me, or decide to take me off any other games with that school.

No one would have known had the issue not been raised by the "suing official". THe coaches had no clue till HE told the assistant from that school!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Kevzebra

Seems you think the glass is half empty too huh?

There are people who can put his/her personal feeling aside and call an objective game. I know if I ever had the chance to go to my old HS and do a game, I would. I have been back to my Alma Mater in college as well and had no qualms about going there and called the game down the middle (as I always do)!

So you don't have the ability to comprehend what you read. I'm not talking about a glass. May I suggest that you have someone else reas it and explain it to you? If you did, the person would tell you:

"BBR doesn't disagree that the official would have been able to call the game without bias. He even wrote as much in his post. What he said was that we should avoid the "appearance of bias or conflict of interest." That means that assignors shouldn't put officials in postions where it appears to an uneducated observer that the offiical might favor a team."

So please do not condem the people that have a hard enough job as it is. There was a good reason those officials were chosen for the assignment!

Sorry but I have a right to my opinion, whether you agree with it or not. Don't tell me what to think.

One other thing, please get a dictionary or use "spell check".

Hey prick, I don't need either. I type in a hurry and sometimes I make a mistake. If that bothers you, I couldn't care less.

BTW, the word is spelled c-o-n-d-e-m-n, not c-o-n-d-e-m. Also, you should have used the plural form of "feeling," which is "feelings."

[Kevzebra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So you don't have the ability to comprehend what you read. I'm not talking about a glass. May I suggest that you have someone else reas it and explain it to you? If you did, the person would tell you:

"BBR doesn't disagree that the official would have been able to call the game without bias. He even wrote as much in his post. What he said was that we should avoid the "appearance of bias or conflict of interest." That means that assignors shouldn't put officials in postions where it appears to an uneducated observer that the offiical might favor a team."



Sorry but I have a right to my opinion, whether you agree with it or not. Don't tell me what to think.



Hey prick, I don't need either. I type in a hurry and sometimes make a mistake. If that bothers you, I don't givea****.

Well, seems as if somone has a problem with associative responses as well. Oh wait, you can comprehend what that is I bet.

The forum is for opinions and I was speaking mine as you were yours. Just because we disagree (and you cannot spell) is no reason to get nasty. I neither called you any names or degraded anything but your ability to type. If that is the worst thing that happens to you today be happy!

[BktBallRef]

I have a problem with people who attack me simply because I disagree with them. You were acting like a prick in this thread, long before I acknowledged it.

BTW, you should re-read my reply as I edited and gave you some helpful spelling and grammer tips.