excessive time-out

[oc]

When is it to late to penalize a coach for taking an excessive time-out? 10-1-7 says penalize when discovered but oviously there has to be a time when it it too late to go back and penalize it. If noticed during the middle of the time-out -- I don't think would be too late. My guess is right up until the ball becomes live.

[Jurassic Referee]

"Penalized when discovered" means exactly what it says. There is no time limit involved, up to the time that the officials have left the visual confines of the floor at the end of the game. You simply administer the team "T" when the official scorer notifies you of the infraction.....i.e.-when it happens or at any time later.

[Official99]

In high school ball, my understanding is a team can buy an "extra/excessive" time-out with a T. I've always penalized when discovered, but allowed them to finish the time-out. If they want to keep taking excessive time-outs, I will keep giving them T's.

I am not saying this is right or wrong, I am just saying thats how I have done it. Anyone have any idea if this is correct or not?

[Nevadaref]

You are correct. They get the time-out and are entitled to use the time at the expense of a team technical foul. Just don't allow this act to be done repeatedly such that it becomes a travesty of the game (5-4-1).

[garote]

Actually if you know that a team is out of time outs, you are not required to recognize the request.

If it’s an honest error on the tables or the official’s part for the first one so be it. After that I feel we are giving a game advantage to the team, out of time outs. Then need to manage their time outs more wisely.

JMO

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by garote

Actually if you know that a team is out of time outs, you are not required to recognize the request.

Reference, please.

I don't think the section in the rules book about granting a TO contains any phrase similar to what you wrote above. It says (parphrasing) that a TO is granted when requested, and a player of the team is in control of the ball, or the ball is at the disposal of that team, or neither team has control. Period.

Unless, of course, you're talking about other than NCAA or NFHS rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by garote

Actually if you know that a team is out of time outs, you are not required to recognize the request.

I know a lot of people agree with that philosophy, but that is not a good philosophy. For one it is possible that you are not aware of the T.O. situation. It is possible that you were not informed properly. You should not take it into your hands whether a team knows the situation or not. It is each team's responsibility to know how many timeouts. You are putting the other team at a disadvantage by not granting a timeout in this situation.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by garote

Actually if you know that a team is out of time outs, you are not required to recognize the request.

JMO

I was once told by a big time D-1 ref at a camp that if I know a team is out of time-outs, I should "count ceiling tiles" if they try to call another one. (In other words, pretend like I don't see it).

I don't buy that philosophy (but obviously it works for him).

Z

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by garote

Actually if you know that a team is out of time outs, you are not required to recognize the request.

That's completely wrong. The official IS required to grant a TO if the TO request is made as per NFHS rule 5-8-3. See case book plays 5.12.4SitB and 10.1.7 also.

NCAA rules are the same. The TO request MUST be granted. Ask anyone at the Univ. of Michigan.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are correct. They get the time-out and are entitled to use the time at the expense of a team technical foul. Just don't allow this act to be done repeatedly such that it becomes a travesty of the game (5-4-1).

I never thought about it, but I think that works.

[oc]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"Penalized when discovered" means exactly what it says. There is no time limit involved, up to the time that the officials have left the visual confines of the floor at the end of the game. You simply administer the team "T" when the official scorer notifies you of the infraction.....i.e.-when it happens or at any time later.

So just to confirm; if a coach calls an excessive time-out in the middle of the 3rd quarter and in the middle of the 4th Quarter we discover that it was an excessive time-out you administer a team "T"?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by oc

So if a coach calls an excessive time-out in the middle of the 3rd quarter and in the middle of the 4th Quarter we discover that it was an excessive time-out you administer a team "T"?

Yes.

[oc]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes.

Man you answer fast.

[REFVA]

In high school ball, my understanding is a team can buy an "extra/excessive" time-out with a T. I've always penalized when discovered, but allowed them to finish the time-out. If they want to keep taking excessive time-outs, I will keep giving them T's.

My understanding is that, if excessive time out is called after already being T'd for calling too many, you do not allow them to conference, they just get a T. shoot the fouls and change possession.

I might be wrong, but about 99% sure of this.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by REFVA

My understanding is that, if excessive time out is called after already being T'd for calling too many, you do not allow them to conference, they just get a T. shoot the fouls and change possession.

I might be wrong, but about 99% sure of this.

I'm 100% sure that you're wrong.

The team gets the full TO. The FT's for the technical foul are shot after the TO is over.

See the casebook play that I already referenced in a previous post- CB 10.1.7. That says that the team is granted the TO, even though they don't have any left.

It doesn't make any sense to penalize a team for taking an excess TO if they never do take that excess TO.