Bill Lambieer WNBA Playoffs

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a huge fan of Women's basketball, but this comment is ludicrous. Most of the officials that work in the WNBA are currently D1 officials. Or they are on the track to actually work NBA games.

Also, let us not overact about Lambieer or any coach. The coach is miked up. It is not like every comment is heard by the officials or directed at the officials. And these are professionals. If you ever worked a college game, there are many college coaches that are tougher on their players than Lambieer ever will be. I have an officiating friend whose daughter plays at a Big Ten school. One of her best friends is Candice Parker (they played together in AAU and their families know each other really well). Some of the Pat Summit comments I have heard about are a lot worse than anything I have heard Lambieer say when I was watching SportsCenter.

Peace

I have a feeling if we miked up every D-1 and NBA coach during the upcomimg season we might be able to use about 25% of what they say on SportsCenter and the other 75% would have to be aired on HBO! Let's mike up Don Nelson for the season and I am willing to bet he is 10 times worst than Bill Lambieer!

[bbcoach7]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a huge fan of Women's basketball, but this comment...

Well, that pretty much removes you from the building right there then. DQ'd for not being a fan dude.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also, let us not overact about Lambieer or ANY coach.

Good idea, lets start now, with me.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And these are professionals.

Who the coaches? The Refs? The players? And being professional implies what? What does the fact that they are getting paid have to do with whether or not there's been a lot of verrrrrry questionable calls. Hey, I watch the games, I'm a fan of the womens game. Don't tell me your not intertested, then try to defend their integrity. I don't care if they are D1, if you watch the games, it's one lousy call after another. How do I know that? I have the benefit of instant replay. I watch a huge amount of D1 basketball, and have always been impressed with the quality of the officiating. I might watch several D1 games in a row before I even see a call that looks funny, then the tape almost always backs up the Ref. Not so with the WNBA playoffs. You can watch a game and see several questionable calls per game.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you ever worked a college game, there are many college coaches that are tougher on their players than Lambieer ever will be.

Being tough on a player is not wrong, in and of its self, but you have to apply principles of quality leadership to your dealings with players, or they won't respect you. He doesn't get that. You can tell by the blatant looks of disgust and disrespect his players openly give him. Rule #1, you cannot effectively coach a player "hard" until that player KNOWS that you love him or her. It's clear from the body language/facial expressions that his players don't believe Laimbier has their backs. Rule #2, you can NEVER effectively coach a female player "hard" if she has a poor relationship with her Father. I didn't just make this sh*t up, it's tried and true psychology/leadership.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have an officiating friend whose daughter plays at a Big Ten school. One of her best friends is Candice Parker (they played together in AAU and their families know each other really well). Some of the Pat Summit comments I have heard about are a lot worse than anything I have heard Lambieer say when I was watching SportsCenter.

Yeah I'm aware of Summit's style, I've read both her books. Geno Auremma (U-Conn) is even worse. And these are good examples to help make my point- Summit's players know that Pat Summit loves them as though they were her own kids.

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful JRut

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

I don't care if they are D1, if you watch the games, it's one lousy call after another. How do I know that? I have the benefit of instant replay. I watch a huge amount of D1 basketball, and have always been impressed with the quality of the officiating. I might watch several D1 games in a row before I even see a call that looks funny, then the tape almost always backs up the Ref. Not so with the WNBA playoffs. You can watch a game and see several questionable calls per game.

And therein lies your problem...you are trying to compare NCAA games and WNBA games...the officials have two VERY different sets of guidelines they are told to follow in those two very distinct games...you can't watch an NBA or WNBA game and expect it to be called the same as an NCAA game. In fact, watch a Lisa Mattingly, Sally Bell, Melissa Barlowe, etc. referee a WNBA game and then watch them ref an NCAA game - it's night and day...and that's the way the WNBA wants it. What you think in your mind is a "questionable call" is the way the WNBA has instructed plays to be called. Apples and tangerines, baby.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And therein lies your problem...you are trying to compare NCAA games and WNBA games...the officials have two VERY different sets of guidelines they are told to follow in those two very distinct games...you can't watch an NBA or WNBA game and expect it to be called the same as an NCAA game. In fact, watch a Lisa Mattingly, Sally Bell, Melissa Barlowe, etc. referee a WNBA game and then watch them ref an NCAA game - it's night and day...and that's the way the WNBA wants it. What you think in your mind is a "questionable call" is the way the WNBA has instructed plays to be called. Apples and tangerines, baby.

Sally Bell retired from the WNBA a couple of years ago, but point will taken.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by RonRef

Sally Bell retired from the WNBA a couple of years ago, but point will taken.

I know - so did Barlowe after last season...but Sally was at a camp I attended this summer and is such a fantastic person that I had to throw her name in there!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

Who the coaches? The Refs? The players? And being professional implies what? What does the fact that they are getting paid have to do with whether or not there's been a lot of verrrrrry questionable calls. Hey, I watch the games, I'm a fan of the womens game. Don't tell me your not intertested, then try to defend their integrity. I don't care if they are D1, if you watch the games, it's one lousy call after another. How do I know that? I have the benefit of instant replay. I watch a huge amount of D1 basketball, and have always been impressed with the quality of the officiating. I might watch several D1 games in a row before I even see a call that looks funny, then the tape almost always backs up the Ref. Not so with the WNBA playoffs. You can watch a game and see several questionable calls per game.

Considering that the WNBA is a professional league, I would assume that everyone involved would be considered a professional.

Whether the calls are perfect or not has little to do with integrity. Once again unless you have strapped on the whistle and gone out there yourself not sure what you would understand about what is a good or bad call.

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

Being tough on a player is not wrong, in and of its self, but you have to apply principles of quality leadership to your dealings with players, or they won't respect you. He doesn't get that. You can tell by the blatant looks of disgust and disrespect his players openly give him. Rule #1, you cannot effectively coach a player "hard" until that player KNOWS that you love him or her. It's clear from the body language/facial expressions that his players don't believe Laimbier has their backs. Rule #2, you can NEVER effectively coach a female player "hard" if she has a poor relationship with her Father. I didn't just make this sh*t up, it's tried and true psychology/leadership.

Wow, now you are a relationship expert. I am sure there are similar feelings with NBA players and their coach. I guess you have never heard of Larry Brown.

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

Yeah I'm aware of Summit's style, I've read both her books. Geno Auremma (U-Conn) is even worse. And these are good examples to help make my point- Summit's players know that Pat Summit loves them as though they were her own kids.

Well Geno Auremma must have done something right, he has been kicking Summit's butt for several years now.

It sounds to me you are more concerned with relationships than what results are. Now I also feel that relationships are important, but people are not successful at these levels because of their personal relationships. I am sure these players also deal with father issues not much different than what happens in the NBA or NCAA levels. I believe results are what is important here, not whether someone likes their coach or not.

I am not sure what being a fan has to do with what my opinion is. After all, I have been officiating and when I have watched the WNBA, I am watching the officials not the game. That is not much different when I happened to watch an NBA game. If you feel it bolsters your point of view, then go for it.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Considering that the WNBA is a professional league, I would assume that everyone involved would be considered a professional.

I don't want to jump into the middle of this, but it should be noted that normally in organized HS & NCAA games the only people who *don't* get paid are the players.

OK, carry on.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I don't want to jump into the middle of this, but it should be noted that normally in organized HS & NCAA games the only people who *don't* get paid are the players.

Are you sure about that?

Ok, carry on.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Are you sure about that?

Ok, carry on.

Why, should I not be sure about that?

(And no more popcorn for you if you say the fans don't get paid... )

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I don't want to jump into the middle of this, but it should be noted that normally in organized HS & NCAA games the only people who *don't* get paid are the players.

OK, carry on.

Being paid under well under $100 for a single event and being paid enough money to support a household are two different things. A lot of non-varsity coaches are not paid much more than what they are paid for working at the particular school as a teacher, advisor or district employee.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Why, should I not be sure about that?

(And no more popcorn for you if you say the fans don't get paid... )

Nah, I like popcorn too much - I was talking about the players. Maybe in HS we can reasonably assume they're not being paid, but can you be so sure at the NCAA level? In fact, without being too cynical you can say most are being paid the cost of tuition to play, so doesn't that make them, by strict definition, a professional?

Anyway, back to the topic - I like rocky's response on the differences in philosophy. For those of us that don't watch the WNBA on a regular basis, I don't think we can offer an objective opinion on whether a particular call was correct. Just as the NBA is called differently, with a different rule set, from NCAA, the WNBA is called differently from NCAA as well. Add together the facts that the officials are put to a high level of scrutiny from the league, and there are probably a large number of officals that would want to replace them if they could, these have to be the best officials out there.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Being paid under well under $100 for a single event and being paid enough money to support a household are two different things. A lot of non-varsity coaches are not paid much more than what they are paid for working at the particular school as a teacher, advisor or district employee.

Peace

I'm not saying they're paid a lot, just saying they are paid.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Nah, I like popcorn too much - I was talking about the players. Maybe in HS we can reasonably assume they're not being paid, but can you be so sure at the NCAA level? In fact, without being too cynical you can say most are being paid the cost of tuition to play, so doesn't that make them, by strict definition, a professional?

hmmm...good point.

So only the non-scholarship student athletes are not paid.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm not saying they're paid a lot, just saying they are paid.

I guess that was a major point to make.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess that was a major point to make.

Peace

It wasn't only the major point, it was the only point.

Anyway, I'm getting in the middle of the real sniping, I'll let you guys get back at it.