Incidental contact

Have you ever NOT called a foul on the defense when a defender trips the opposing player dribbling the ball. I had a call recently where the offensive player (girls) was running down court and the defender was not really putting any pressure on her and their legs got tangled and the offensive player stumbled and lost possession. I passed on the potential foul, because I felt it was simply incidental contact. I was just wondering if any of you ever made an interpretation like this or do you automatically call that a foul on the defense.

[JRutledge]

If the defender did nothing but back up and move away from the defender, then I have no problem not calling anything. Now if the leg was stuck out (not necessarily on purpose) or the defender was not in legal guarding position, then I will likely call a foul on the defender.

Peace

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by MPLAHE

Have you ever NOT called a foul on the defense when a defender trips the opposing player dribbling the ball. I had a call recently where the offensive player (girls) was running down court and the defender was not really putting any pressure on her and their legs got tangled and the offensive player stumbled and lost possession. I passed on the potential foul, because I felt it was simply incidental contact. I was just wondering if any of you ever made an interpretation like this or do you automatically call that a foul on the defense.

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You don't call a foul if there was no foul. You make decisions like this all the time in every game you work. Just because two players get tangled up or run into one another doesn't mean you have a foul. You have 10 people running hard on an 84' court. Incidental cantact is a fact of the game.

[btaylor64]

This is a foul on the defender. This is seeing the whole play though. I have no called it before, but only because i saw a player undoubtedly make a little contact with the defender and then seperated and once separated I saw the offensive player lose their feet out from underneath him/her on their own.

Regardless if you judge the contact with feet getting tangled up as incidental, this puts the offensive player at a distinct disadvantage. I don't want to say always because you have treat each play as an individual play. To say always would be wrong, but I will say personally I have this as a foul 99% of the time.

The philosophy of calling this a foul is used by mostly everybody in college and is very evident in the pro game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Regardless if you judge the contact with feet getting tangled up as incidental, this puts the offensive player at a distinct disadvantage. I don't want to say always because you have treat each play as an individual play. To say always would be wrong, but I will say personally I have this as a foul 99% of the time.

I am not sure I agree with that statement. IF the offensive player is at a disadvantage, the question is why? If the offensive player was going into a defender that is couple be largely his/her problem. The offensive player still has a right to a place on the floor. And if 99% of the time you have a foul, then I would say that to be wrong.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

The philosophy of calling this a foul is used by mostly everybody in college and is very evident in the pro game.

Where did you get that? If anything I have been told to have a much slower whistle and not to bail out the offense when they make dumb plays. So I would take issue with you saying "most" in this case. All I have to do is watch a game on TV and I can see the most do not call this a foul on the defender (or anyone for that matter).

Peace

[btaylor64]

I mispoke, I should have said that in my region with college ball it is expressed that you call this a foul, and where I am from is where refs, for the most part are wanting to get into the pro game and therefore call this a foul like I do, cause this is what the pro game wants. (I bet if you think hard you will guess which part of the country I am talking about. It is also where about 70% of the NBA staff is from.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I mispoke, I should have said that in my region with college ball it is expressed that you call this a foul, and where I am from is where refs, for the most part are wanting to get into the pro game and therefore call this a foul like I do, cause this is what the pro game wants. (I bet if you think hard you will guess which part of the country I am talking about. It is also where about 70% of the NBA staff is from.)

That's complete nonsense afaic.

You're trying to justify your own position by trying to say the the colleges and the NBA agree with your hypothesis. Well, that horse don't ride. They don't agree with you. Imo, if you call that foul every time, as you're suggesting, you'll never get a sniff of a D1 college game, let alone the NBA.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

The philosophy of calling this a foul is used by mostly everybody in college and is very evident in the pro game.

Um, no, that statement is completely wrong imo; Anybody that called the play the way you are suggesting wouldn't be doing the college or pro game very long.

Incidental contact isn't necessarily a foul. Illegal contact is.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by MPLAHE

Have you ever NOT called a foul on the defense when a defender trips the opposing player dribbling the ball. I had a call recently where the offensive player (girls) was running down court and the defender was not really putting any pressure on her and their legs got tangled and the offensive player stumbled and lost possession. I passed on the potential foul, because I felt it was simply incidental contact. I was just wondering if any of you ever made an interpretation like this or do you automatically call that a foul on the defense.

It is a lot easier to sell this as a foul than to sell it as a no-call in my opinion. It might even help you the rest of the game so the defender isn't riding the ball handler up and down the court. Most times the defender doesn't have legal guarding position and is bodying up on the dribbler.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by MPLAHE

Have you ever NOT called a foul on the defense when a defender trips the opposing player dribbling the ball. I had a call recently where the offensive player (girls) was running down court and the defender was not really putting any pressure on her and their legs got tangled and the offensive player stumbled and lost possession. I passed on the potential foul, because I felt it was simply incidental contact. I was just wondering if any of you ever made an interpretation like this or do you automatically call that a foul on the defense.

I'd have to be there to see it, of course. But from the description I'd have to say I'd probably call it unless the offensive player initiated the contact. To me this seems like a pretty clear case of "call the obvious." I'd have to have a pretty good reason not to call this.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by MPLAHE

Have you ever NOT called a foul on the defense when a defender trips the opposing player dribbling the ball. I had a call recently where the offensive player (girls) was running down court and the defender was not really putting any pressure on her and their legs got tangled and the offensive player stumbled and lost possession. I passed on the potential foul, because I felt it was simply incidental contact. I was just wondering if any of you ever made an interpretation like this or do you automatically call that a foul on the defense.

I don't think it's automatic in either direction. A lot is going to depend on who is moving in which direction, and who can see whom. Thinking over various possibilities, I expect I'd call it more often than not at the high school level, but I can't say for sure from your description what I'd do in your case.

[REFVA]

Did your association tell you to call it on the defender 99% of the time too? Jurassic Referee

Of course not, it's who initiated the contact. many times at the High school level the offensive player is not always innocent. I'm not sure if that was a trick question or just being funny

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by REFVA

Of course not, it's who initiated the contact. many times at the High school level the offensive player is not always innocent. I'm not sure if that was a trick question or just being funny

Neither.

Just wondering if you had been instructed to always call that a foul on the defense too, no matter what the circumstances are or who initiated the contact.

[REFVA]

Just wondering if you had been instructed to always call that a foul on the defense too, no matter what the circumstances are or who initiated the contact.

They would prefer a call as long as it's legitimate.. as stated, only if there is contact then call it on who ever initiated it.