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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 03, 2006, 11:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf
Seriously Folks,

The officiating where I live has gotten to the point where it's really, really bad. Is there anything a parent/coach can do about it or do we just have to learn to tolerate it?
What can coaches, parents, and fans do about it? What is the right approach?
Seriously, smurf, I'm glad you asked, because it gives me a chance to give my little lecture, and believe that someone might actually hear it and pay attention to it.

"As long as you blame the refs, your players aren't going to get any better." That's the whole story. If your refs are calling a travel sometimes after the first step, sometimes after the second, then don't ever take that second step. If your players are to be good players, they need to be able to adjust. This means that they can change their play to be able to handle different kinds of teams, and different kinds of plays, and thus different kinds of refs. But if you keep saying to your child that the refs were lousy, your child won't see the things she needs to work on, because she'll be too busy feeling sorry for herself.

The teams that I work with that are really good, end up in the state tournaments, put players into college scholarships (and I"m talking about not only high school teams, but also the classics middle school teams) have coaches that may or may not work the refs, but they don't let their players use that as an excuse. Even if they get lousy refs (and you know they do, since I said I've worked with them!) and they're yelling at the refs, they still tell the players what to fix and what to change. In fact, the best coaches I've worked with say things like,

"Yes, that was a travel, Ashley, and you've been doing it all season"
"Even if you didn't actually foul, you weren't supposed to be there."
"That was a great play, and it was also a foul."

I've even heard,

"So the ref doesn't know the travelling rule for that one situation. Then DON"T DO IT ANYMORE!!" Meaning, yea the ref was wrong, but you are even wronger to keep doing it.

As a parent, you need to focus on your kid's attitude, effort, improvement, and perspective. Those are all things you can have a direct influence on, and they don't require harsh words or angry confrontations.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 04, 2006, 11:02am
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
You're going to have to give examples here of this so-called "bad" officiating. The only examples I see are the guy being late and a delay of game call (that while I need more information to make a determination, doesn't sound like it was horribly wrong). As far as the guy being late, are you SURE it wasn't someone who was called at the last minute? Was this an early game where the assignor may have told the league that he couldn't guarantee someone would be there on time due to travel and/or work schedules? I'm not saying its a good practice to be late, but unless you know all the facts, you need to reserve judgment

When we hear things like officials not "enforce(ing) the written rules of the game," what we are really hearing is "I wanted them to call more fouls/violations on the other team and fewer on my team." Again, without examples, its hard to take this rant seriously.

So, you want to know what you can do to correct it? Easy: grab a whistle and striped shirt and show everyone how things should be done.
When I first started I worked every game I could get. Many were "over my head". That's how you learn. The younger the players the more likely the officials are less experenced. Just like the players- the officials are learning.

Now there is no way I will put up with the abuse of AAU. I've paid my dues and maid my mistakes and learned from them.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 04, 2006, 11:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man In Blue
I've paid my dues and maid my mistakes.
You get maid service with your association dues? That's awesome!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 04, 2006, 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
You get maid service with your association dues? That's awesome!
Man In Blue, meet Mr. Annoying Pain-In-The-Azz Grammar Guy.

Mr. Annoying Pain-In-The-Azz Grammar Guy, meet Man In Blue.

(I've always admired Ms. Manners.)
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 04, 2006, 04:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
You get maid service with your association dues? That's awesome!
Got it wrong, Chuck. He makes no reference to a third party being the maid.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 07, 2006, 08:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
The only examples I see are the guy being late and a delay of game call (that while I need more information to make a determination, doesn't sound like it was horribly wrong).
I think the point there was the irony of an official who was a half hour late calling a delay of game T.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 07, 2006, 12:26pm
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Has anyone heard or seen smurf since his post?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 07, 2006, 04:29pm
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Just when you thought Gargamel was useless.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 07, 2006, 04:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REFVA
Has anyone heard or seen smurf since his post?
Just pm the guy and tell him to come back and gain knowledge.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 09, 2006, 03:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMEngmann
Another aspect, which also goes directly to money, is that the atmosphere in a lot of these games is very unfriendly to officials. In a regular season game, there are rules of conduct that players and coaches must abide by and consequences if they don't (i.e. suspensions, possibility of getting fired). In summer league, there's no accountability because the coaches are paying the tournament director, who will often hang out the officials to dry because the coach is the one generating income, and they can always find another warm body. I've seen some AAU tournaments with "court monitors" (who incidentally have no officiating experience) who coaches can complain to during the game about the officials, and I've heard about officials getting removed during games over some calls and sent home. This sort of atmosphere encourages trouble-makers and discourages quality officials from working these games.
Early this summer, I agreed to work an AAU tournament. With another experienced official, I was asked to work the final three games on the "main court," including the tournament championship. During our first game, I gave a coach a technical foul and he sat and stewed for the rest of the game. After the game, the coach went over to the tournament director and, shortly after that, the tournament director came over to my partner and me and said that we were being reassigned to a different court. Apparently, the recently-T'd coach (who's team was going to play in the championship in the final game of the day) had requested our reassignment because of his perception that I "had it in for him." My partner and I said that we'd work wherever the director assigned us that day, but explained to the director that it may not be wise to let coaches pick their officials. When the most senior official who was at the site got wind of what was happening, he went to the tournament director and told him that if we were taken off the main court because of a coach's request, not only would he never work for the tournament director again, but he would encourage all the officials in the association to do the same. The tournament director -- apparently susceptible to threats whether from coaches or officials -- relented and kept us on the same court. The coach stewed quietly all game as his favored-but-underperforming team lost the championship. I'm confident that he, the team and their entourage all had a good *****ing session after the game to blame the officials for their loss rather than the team's poor play.

Anyway, the point of this is to agree with what SMEngmann said -- the atmosphere was unfriendly to officials. I'm not planning to work the AAU tournament anymore and -- although I don't think I'm God's gift to officiating -- I was one of the more experienced and better officials at the tournament. So, I guess one thing that could be done to improve officiating is to do your part at creating an environment in which quality officials will want to work. Best wishes.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 09, 2006, 03:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtg19
Early this summer, I agreed to work an AAU tournament. With another experienced official, I was asked to work the final three games on the "main court," including the tournament championship. During our first game, I gave a coach a technical foul and he sat and stewed for the rest of the game. After the game, the coach went over to the tournament director and, shortly after that, the tournament director came over to my partner and me and said that we were being reassigned to a different court. Apparently, the recently-T'd coach (who's team was going to play in the championship in the final game of the day) had requested our reassignment because of his perception that I "had it in for him." My partner and I said that we'd work wherever the director assigned us that day, but explained to the director that it may not be wise to let coaches pick their officials. When the most senior official who was at the site got wind of what was happening, he went to the tournament director and told him that if we were taken off the main court because of a coach's request, not only would he never work for the tournament director again, but he would encourage all the officials in the association to do the same. The tournament director -- apparently susceptible to threats whether from coaches or officials -- relented and kept us on the same court. The coach stewed quietly all game as his favored-but-underperforming team lost the championship. I'm confident that he, the team and their entourage all had a good *****ing session after the game to blame the officials for their loss rather than the team's poor play.

Anyway, the point of this is to agree with what SMEngmann said -- the atmosphere was unfriendly to officials. I'm not planning to work the AAU tournament anymore and -- although I don't think I'm God's gift to officiating -- I was one of the more experienced and better officials at the tournament. So, I guess one thing that could be done to improve officiating is to do your part at creating an environment in which quality officials will want to work. Best wishes.
Kudos to your director for having gonads, and standing up for you.

Coaches dictating who gets to ref. That should be an SI Sign that The Apocolypse Is Upon Us.

I don't think I'd go back there again. And I'm tell them why too. After all, they deserve feedback as well.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 09, 2006, 07:29pm
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next year's AAU

Same Coach: Man. Where did you get these officials? Couldn't you find any good ones?

Tournament Director: No. We had some a-hole of a coach trying to dictate who would and would not officiate his games and the good officials decided they would not come to this tournament anymore because of it. Hey! Wait a minute! I know you! YOU'RE THE A-HOLE!
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 09, 2006, 11:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Same Coach: Man. Where did you get these officials? Couldn't you find any good ones?

Tournament Director: No. We had some a-hole of a coach trying to dictate who would and would not officiate his games and the good officials decided they would not come to this tournament anymore because of it. Hey! Wait a minute! I know you! YOU'RE THE A-HOLE!
....

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 15, 2006, 07:37am
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Dear Smurf
I am writing this although I suspect that your post was made just to went some steam, rather than to discuss an issue.
Given that many before me have offered valuable and valid advice, I will offer a slightly different view of things.
Your first option is simply to move to another area! Move somewhere where refs are doing a much better job. If at first you fail, keep moving until you find a place where the referees are doing their job the way you approve of. I have no idea where that may be, but good luck searching.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 15, 2006, 07:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiref
Dear Smurf
I am writing this although I suspect that your post was made just to went some steam, rather than to discuss an issue.
Given that many before me have offered valuable and valid advice, I will offer a slightly different view of things.
Your first option is simply to move to another area! Move somewhere where refs are doing a much better job. If at first you fail, keep moving until you find a place where the referees are doing their job the way you approve of. I have no idea where that may be, but good luck searching.
LOL.....great advice for all fanboys....as long as they don't move anywhere near me.
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