Pre Game

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I was working a CC game with a rookie and a 3rd yr vet a few years ago. Rookie was the L, I was the C (my 4th yr), and vet was the T. Player A drives from the T side, into the L primary parallel to the endline. I had 2 other players in my primary away from the basket. On the drive and subsequent shot there was a OBVIOUS foul on the shot at the farther lane line. No call from the primary official (T), no call from the (L). I paused long enough to see that no one had this call, and cracked the whistle. After reporting, a timeout was called. Rookie said "thanks for getting that one." I just reminded them that was one we have got to have. Both partners agreed.

After the game our assignor came in, the first words out of his mouth, "great crew call, we had to call it." Rookie just had one of those rookie moments, and 3yr vet had given up the ball too early. Did I want to call it in front of them? HELL NO! If there is a no call on that one, the entire crew loses credibility. I will trust my partner(s) until they prove that I cannot.

Not all assignors make assignments with the idea that "this official can handle it," they are made so that an official gains experience. This can be an officials first HS game, first playoff game, whatever. We all go through the process of not having been there before. Otherwise we would all start at the highest levels. Sometimes our nerves can cause us to not see everything we think we should and a partner will come in and get one.

I said earlier that I do help out brand new officials who are still green. That is my exception.

At a CC game however, I would expect my partners to be able to hold their own and ref their areas without me babysitting them.

If it was an OBVIOUS foul, one of them has to get it. Otherwise they don't belong in a CC game or even a competitive HS varsity game. If they miss a call and get a little guff from the coach, it will make them work harder the next time. If I make a call in their area, I become an enabler and they don't learn to step up.

In the situation you describe above, my assignor would have asked the T and the L why they didn't make the call. Then he would have asked the C why they were reffing in the T and L's area and he would have told the C to quit being a ball watcher. In the situation you describe, we have all 3 officials reffing the ball. Who is reffing the other 8?

Z

[rainmaker]

If it was an OBVIOUS foul, one of them has to get it. Otherwise they don't belong in a CC game or even a competitive HS varsity game. If they miss a call and get a little guff from the coach, it will make them work harder the next time. If I make a call in their area, I become an enabler and they don't learn to step up.

You're an "enabler" if you take one gotta-git-it call from a rookie who's sucking Fox? Wow.

It's called team work, and it makes for a great game. You oughtta try it sometime.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You're an "enabler" if you take one gotta-git-it call from a rookie who's sucking Fox? Wow.

It's called team work, and it makes for a great game. You oughtta try it sometime.

If you would have read this entire thread, you'd see that I said I do help out a greenhorn (I actually posted that twice) with some babysitting.

In any other situation, I trust my partners. Why is that so hard? Part of teamwork is trust. If I'm looking in someone else's area, outside of my primary and secondary coverage areas, I am not doing my job and I'm not trusting them to do theirs.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by zebraman

If you would have read this entire thread, you'd see that I said I do help out a greenhorn (I actually posted that twice) with some babysitting.

In any other situation, I trust my partners. Why is that so hard? Part of teamwork is trust. If I'm looking in someone else's area, outside of my primary and secondary coverage areas, I am not doing my job and I'm not trusting them to do theirs.

Z

I see where you said that about the greenhorns. Sorry I missed that. Still, part of teamwork is "helping out" when a partner is confused or blocked out. I can think of a number of completely reasonable situations where that might happen without someone being out of line, depending on how you define primary and secondary areas. I mean, as near as I can tell, there isn't any spot on the floor that isn't in both a primary and a secondary, so there are always two people "authorized" to make any call. (I mean in three-whistle)

And if we ever work together, you can trust me to miss at least one that I'd be happy if you got.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I see where you said that about the greenhorns. Sorry I missed that. Still, part of teamwork is "helping out" when a partner is confused or blocked out. I can think of a number of completely reasonable situations where that might happen without someone being out of line, depending on how you define primary and secondary areas. I mean, as near as I can tell, there isn't any spot on the floor that isn't in both a primary and a secondary, so there are always two people "authorized" to make any call. (I mean in three-whistle)

And if we ever work together, you can trust me to miss at least one that I'd be happy if you got.

Missing 1 is fine, I suppose. It's your problem usually.

But if you miss 1 I want to know about it...in case you miss another so I can be ready to help.

And certainly if you miss the game changing call I want to know about it so we (the crew) can save the game.

This argument about "I aint looking out of my area no way no how" and "trust your partner" and "who's watching Aunt Milly in the 4th row while you're looking in my area" is BS to me. I don't put on my black polyester pleated no belt no cuffs sansabelts and stick a whistle in my mouth only to ignore 2/3 of the game. If I did I would feel obligated to return 2/3 of my game fee. And trust is a 2 way street...if I'm going to trust you to make good calls then you have to trust me when I am forced to poach in your area.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Missing 1 is fine, I suppose. It's your problem usually.

But if you miss 1 I want to know about it...in case you miss another so I can be ready to help.

And certainly if you miss the game changing call I want to know about it so we (the crew) can save the game.

This argument about "I aint looking out of my area no way no how" and "trust your partner" and "who's watching Aunt Milly in the 4th row while you're looking in my area" is BS to me. I don't put on my black polyester pleated no belt no cuffs sansabelts and stick a whistle in my mouth only to ignore 2/3 of the game. If I did I would feel obligated to return 2/3 of my game fee. And trust is a 2 way street...if I'm going to trust you to make good calls then you have to trust me when I am forced to poach in your area.

Okay, soooo..............

what am I missing here? What are you trying to say?

I"m perfectly willing to trust you when you're poaching in my area, if you'll trust me not to blow up when you save the game by making my game changing call in ffront of our other partner. Or, huh?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, soooo..............

what am I missing here? What are you trying to say?

I"m perfectly willing to trust you when you're poaching in my area, if you'll trust me not to blow up when you save the game by making my game changing call in ffront of our other partner. Or, huh?

I have no idea what you're saying, or asking.

Try again?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, soooo..............

what am I missing here? What are you trying to say?

I"m perfectly willing to trust you when you're poaching in my area, if you'll trust me not to blow up when you save the game by making my game changing call in ffront of our other partner. Or, huh?

If I am to understand you correctly Juulie, it sounds like you are saying that one call is going to save a game? I have never seen a situation where one call "saves" a game. Now there might be critical calls or important calls, but if a call needs to be made to save a game, I really think the official in that area should be put in trust to do so. If they cannot do so, they need not be there.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I mean, as near as I can tell, there isn't any spot on the floor that isn't in both a primary and a secondary, so there are always two

Agreed, but the way I interpret the original post (and also the situation that I added later in the post) is that the third official (who has no responsibilities in that area) makes the call.

If the third official makes the call, we have all three officials watching the same area and that is just not good 3-person officiating. In fact, it's a complete waste and we might as well go back to 2-person in that case.

Z