Ever happen?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by mopar60

I thank you all for your input, I have no intentions of ever going past high school level so I believe Nevadaref's advice would pertain to my sitch. I also agree with JRutt because I too believe college ball has little to do with building character and self confidence in student/athletes as opposed to making money, today.

I don't know what you expect to get out of the camp you're going to (learn? move up?) but IMO the best thing you can do is to ask the camp personel their opinion. I bet the answers you get back will look like this:

1. Absolutely unacceptable, I respect an official who has the guts to T this

2. Absolutely unacceptable, I respect officials who are smooth enough to defuse this quietly

3. None of your business.

I'm somewhere between 2 & 3 myself.

[Stripes33]

I was working a freshman game a couple years ago when Team A is up 25 at halftime. We start the second half and Team B scores the first 12 points. Coach from Team A requests 30 second time-out and just goes on a profanity laced tirade at his players. I wait until the huddle breaks and I let him know that's unacceptable behavior and it will cost him. WHACK! He agreed and we moved forward. The funny thing about it was that a parent thanked me after the game as well.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Stripes33

I was working a freshman game a couple years ago when Team A is up 25 at halftime. We start the second half and Team B scores the first 12 points. Coach from Team A requests 30 second time-out and just goes on a profanity laced tirade at his players. I wait until the huddle breaks and I let him know that's unacceptable behavior and it will cost him. WHACK! He agreed and we moved forward. The funny thing about it was that a parent thanked me after the game as well.

I'm not saying what you did is wrong or right. But I'm wondering if the goal is to stop this behavior why wait until he's done? Why not go into the huddle & ask him to knock it off, then T him if he gets nasty with you?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm not saying what you did is wrong or right. But I'm wondering if the goal is to stop this behavior why wait until he's done? Why not go into the huddle & ask him to knock it off, then T him if he gets nasty with you?

Dan, I not saying what you said is right or wrong. But, why try to show up the coach in his or her huddle. I (imo) think Stripes33 took the right approach under the situation.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Dan, I not saying what you said is right or wrong. But, why try to show up the coach in his or her huddle. I (imo) think Stripes33 took the right approach under the situation.

Why do you need to show up the coach?

Walk over to the huddle, stand behind the coach and ask him quietly to keep it down.

(Read my other post, this is an example of my #2.)

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

if the goal is to stop this behavior why wait until he's done? Why not go into the huddle & ask him to knock it off, then T him if he gets nasty with you?

Kind of scary, but this was my first thought as well.

One of us better knock this off pretty quick.

[Nevadaref]

I'll let the NFHS write my response to Rut's comments for me. As I wrote in my first post there is a big difference between the NCAA and NFHS and what is desired from the officials. Rut gave you the way to handle it AT THE NCAA LEVEL. Usually I think that Rut expresses practical advice that helps officials, but in this particular case I have to disagree. Furthermore, since he called my thoughts "really bad advice and totally inaccurate," I'm compelled to demonstrate that for the NFHS level he is completely WRONG. (Of course, he won't acknowledge it!)

Here is the direct quote from the 2004 NFHS Rules Book. I didn't write a single word of this. The NFHS Rules Committee wrote all of it. I'm only highlighting some parts.

"2004-05 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
...
4. Specific unsporting acts. The committee is concerned about the following specific unsporting acts. Coaches, players and officials must pay particular attention to these areas:
...
C. Inappropriate language. The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. Each group has a responsibility to the game and to each other to demonstrate civility and citizenship.
The team huddle is not a safe haven for coaches' bad language. Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse. Officials are not exempt either. Inappropriate references to players or coaches are not acceptable. Game administrators must also pay particular attention to fans. A game ticket is not a license to abuse."

Now would you rather follow what the NFHS says or Rut's personal opinion?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My personal opinion is to ignore this unless everyone in the gym can hear the coach. Then just have a quick word and move on. Do not penalize the kids because a coach cannot control themselves for a moment with his/her own team.

Shouldn't NFHS officials should go out and follow what that NFHS POE says? Checking with your local assignor or handling it the D1 way may get you more games, but you have to admit that you are failing to uphold the civility and citizenship values which are at the core of HS sports. If you are okay with that that is your business. But to use Rut's words, "I think that is terrible advice." I prefer to do what I know is right and I don't need to check with anyone to determine that.

Just shows that not everything which filters down from college and the pros is good for the HS game.

[JRutledge]

When the NF starts hiring me for games, I will only focus on what the NF wants on this issue to the letter. Until that time, I will apply common sense and practices that work (like was said by Dan). Now if you want to call a T, then do so. You do have rules to back you up.

Here is also the other part of this discussion. Have you ever wondered why the NF never tells you what “inappropriate language” is? It is clear to me that the NF leaves these things open for interpretation or use of some judgment.

You can quote all the rules in the world; it is not dictates philosophy or common sense.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'll let the NFHS write my response to Rut's comments for me....

"2004-05 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
...
4. Specific unsporting acts. The committee is concerned about the following specific unsporting acts. Coaches, players and officials must pay particular attention to these areas:
...
C. Inappropriate language. The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. Each group has a responsibility to the game and to each other to demonstrate civility and citizenship.
The team huddle is not a safe haven for coaches' bad language. Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse. Officials are not exempt either. Inappropriate references to players or coaches are not acceptable. Game administrators must also pay particular attention to fans. A game ticket is not a license to abuse."

Now would you rather follow what the NFHS says or Rut's personal opinion?

So I take it you throw out fans for acts of abuse on a regular basis?

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So I take it you throw out fans for acts of abuse on a regular basis?

Well this whole thread is getting rather sarcastic now, but game administrators generally refers to the A.D.

Officials deal with coaches and players. We might bring a fan to the attention of a sleeping A.D. though.

Z

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So I take it you throw out fans for acts of abuse on a regular basis?

Yes, Dan, I have no problem having spectators removed.
My most recent two were:
1. Last Saturday a guy yelled, "That's bullsh!t," following my partners call.
2. A student from the home school told a visiting player to "Go back to [visiting home town], you fag."

That's not part of HS sports and I will do something about it; and the NFHS has instructed game officials to do so.

Now at the D1 level, I would leave it totally up to the game administration.