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PAT THE REF Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:43am

Visible Counts
It seems that most officials that I work with have a problem with my ten & five counts… It seems that they have a problem with counting an actual 10 seconds. No one is perfect, however, I believe that if 10 sec. on the clock elapses then it is 10 seconds b/c… They tell me that our count (their count) is the only one that applies. In which they count slower and makes it actually 14-15 seconds.
What would you do? Do you have a quick count (actual 10 sec) or slower count?

JRutledge Tue Jun 13, 2006 01:29am

Well the count of an official is actually the only thing we can go on as it relates to mechanics and rules. You should work on getting your count as close as possible, but as you said before no one is perfect. You also cannot go directly off the clock. The reality is the count does not always start with the start of the clock. So you cannot go directly by the clock with the count in the first place. I personally have practiced my count to be as close to the real time as possible. I even peek at the clock in certain situations to make sure I am on top of the real time. But if I am a little fast on the count or a little slow, my count is the only count that matters.


blindzebra Tue Jun 13, 2006 03:18am

That is what microwave popcorn is for.

Stick it in, work on your counts, and reward yourself for your accuracy.:D

ChuckElias Tue Jun 13, 2006 07:31am

I would rather an official be a little too slow with counting than a little too fast. But I also would rather not see an official's 10-second count take 15 seconds. That's way too slow in my book.

I've been reffing for 14 years now and I still practice my count with the microwave. But usually, I use the shot clock to keep it. As Rut said, the 10-second count may not always start at the same time that the shot clock starts; but it usually does. So if I know the ball was controlled at the first touch, and I know the shot clock started properly, then I have a 10-second violation when the shot clock hits 25 (or 20, if you're using women's rules). And yes, I still do actually count, but when I get to about 8, I look at the clock to see how close I actually am.

M&M Guy Tue Jun 13, 2006 08:45am

Thank you mick.

But don't blame Chuck. He's been busy setting up his shoe company so he can take care of all his reffing buddies.

Just don't post the link here, ok?

ChuckElias Tue Jun 13, 2006 09:04am


Originally Posted by mick
When did they add the 10 second count for women?

Good point, mick. In MA, we use a 30-second shot clock for HS. But I knew that it wasn't a FED rule and that the 30-second shot clock was a NCAAW rule. So I confused myself into that dumb comment. Good catch.

Back In The Saddle Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:37am

If you don't work with a shot clock, you can still use the game clock to your advantage. Microwave ovens are fine, but my hot air popper makes better popcorn. And practicing my count with the game clock helps me develop a better feel for what a second feels like during play. When I'm trailing the play in transition, and there's nothing interesting happening (rec. games are really good for this), I check the speed of my count against the game clock.

One problem I have, and I've seen many other officials exhibit the same behavior, is that the speed of my count is affected by my gait (e.g., walking upcourt produces a slower count than running) and by the intensity of the action (e.g., my count tends to slow when there is heavy defensive pressure). Checking my count as I come up the floor at different speeds has helped me to reduce the "drift" in my count. Obviously I can't be watching the clock during intense play, however the awareness that I count slower in intense situations has helped me lessen the effect.

jeffpea Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:59am

Summer camps, summer league games, and other out-of-season games are the perfect time to work on mechanical changes that you deem necessary. Your :10 counts; increasing your game awarness (AP, bonus, player foul count,etc.); and officiating with your off-hand (foul signal, table reporting, OOB directions, etc.) are all perfect examples of what you should use this time for.

While I use the shot clock/game clock as a basis, I will always use my personal count to determine if a violation has occurred. If I get into a game situation that, based on the clock, seems to warrant a :10 violation - then I'm simply working on my "communication skills w/ the coach"....better to have it happen and learn how to deal with it in the summer than in the biggest game of the season.

mick Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:02pm


Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
...the speed of my count is affected by my gait (e.g., walking upcourt produces a slower count than running) and by the intensity of the action (e.g., my count tends to slow when there is heavy defensive pressure).

Good job , Back In The Saddle !
Recognizing that variance is the most important step toward a solution to the problem.

Yet, I have a similar, but unrelated problem:
  • While driving down a highway and the Temptations come on the radio, how do I keep my right foot from going down? :cool:

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