"Try it and you'll find out"

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Brad

If you were pulled over for a traffic violation and you asked the cop, "Is driving without a front license plate tag illegal?" What sort of responce would you like to hear:

A) "Try it and find out."
B) "You'll have to read your driver's manual / consult with your driving instructor."
C) "Yes, it is in the state of Texas."

Brad - I don't think your analogy holds up here. In your scenario, you already have been pulled over for the violation. I think a better analogy would be if you just walked up to a cop on the beat (do they do that anymore?) and asked him that type of question. He probably would give you an answer instead of telling you that (in some manner) it's not his job to tell you, only to cite you if you do something illegal.

Now, apparently having weakened my own position, let me back pedal by saying that we must make players aware that their coaches have a bigger job than just teaching X's oand O's. I feel it is a coach's responsibility to tell an inbounder coming out of a timeout that they can run the baseline or not. After all, if he doesn't communicate that, how can he design an inbound play?

As for the point of how a player can physically ask the coach that from across the floor - two points: first, I hear players and coaches yell at each other across the floor all the time, and second, maybe we should rephrase our answer to say something like, "You should have asked your coach if you don't know." Then we're more in a "teaching" mode, because we are teaching the player to ask his coach from now on.

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Brad - I don't think your analogy holds up here. In your scenario, you already have been pulled over for the violation. I think a better analogy would be if you just walked up to a cop on the beat (do they do that anymore?) and asked him that type of question. He probably would give you an answer instead of telling you that (in some manner) it's not his job to tell you, only to cite you if you do something illegal.

Now, apparently having weakened my own position, let me back pedal by saying that we must make players aware that their coaches have a bigger job than just teaching X's oand O's. I feel it is a coach's responsibility to tell an inbounder coming out of a timeout that they can run the baseline or not. After all, if he doesn't communicate that, how can he design an inbound play?

As for the point of how a player can physically ask the coach that from across the floor - two points: first, I hear players and coaches yell at each other across the floor all the time, and second, maybe we should rephrase our answer to say something like, "You should have asked your coach if you don't know." Then we're more in a "teaching" mode, because we are teaching the player to ask his coach from now on.

I agree with Brad on this one. Why would you purposely piss off a player and then their coach when they find out what you said. I think we need to be professional and just answer the question since we are the "rule experts". Just a thought...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by dhodges007
I agree with Brad on this one. Why would you purposely piss off a player and then their coach when they find out what you said. I think we need to be professional and just answer the question since we are the "rule experts". Just a thought... [/B]

I guess I have to go back to the reasoning of where are you going to draw the line on answering these kinds of questions from players. Should you answer every inquiry as to whether or not it would be a violation? The best example of this is if a player has picked up a dribble and asks you if they can dribble again.

Although I agree there are some times we should provide information before the fact, our main job is still to call the game, not coach.

As a wise ref once said, "I don't foul, I don't violate. I just point it out to the scorer when it happens."

[Brad]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
The best example of this is if a player has picked up a dribble and asks you if they can dribble again.

I think that I may just laugh instead of responding if this even happens to me!

For me, I guess it boils down to this: I will answer legitimate questions from players and coaches. If more than a 1-2 second answer is required, I'll tell them to ask me during a time-out/halftime/etc.

[Stripes130]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref
[B]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett


On the topic of players asking questions, am I the only
one this happens to? As L administering the first FT,
holding out 2 fingers, or 1 & 1, or 1 finger, say loudly
"Two shots (or 1, or 1 & 1), hold your positions (or let
it hit, or on the release)". Then as you back out of the
lane, some bright bulb will ask "Hey ref, how many shots?"

And I thought I was the one and only Tigger (apologies to Disneyland again). That happens to me all the time. Another one that BktBallRef mentioned he has not seen in a while is the plane violation. I don't have enough fingers & toes to count the times I have called that. Of course being of the female gender I get many girls games and you can call it all night on freshman girls. What I find humorous is that EVERY TIME I give the inbounder the ball I run my hand up and down the plane, look at the defender and inbounder (even though it doesn't apply to the inbounder), and I say "stay straight up, do not come across" Then two seconds later the defense throws her arms across, then I give a verbal warning to the team (recorded in the sorebook), hand the ball back to the inbounder and one second later...GUESS WHAT???? defense does it again. Now I believe I might be wrong in issuing a T for delay of game this time but I do it anyway because if they are silly enough to do the opposite of what you just told them not to do then they are surely not going to know the rule on T's.
Correct me if I'm wrong....I'm just thinking that they actually have to make contact with the ball or player, but on the other hand each time they cross the line I have to tweet and that's just a waste of time.

[mick]

Originally posted by Stripes130

[snip] Then two seconds later the defense throws her arms across, then I give a verbal warning to the team (recorded in the sorebook), hand the ball back to the inbounder and one second later...GUESS WHAT???? defense does it again. Now I believe I might be wrong in issuing a T for delay of game this time but I do it anyway because if they are silly enough to do the opposite of what you just told them not to do then they are surely not going to know the rule on T's.
Correct me if I'm wrong....I'm just thinking that they actually have to make contact with the ball or player, but on the other hand each time they cross the line I have to tweet and that's just a waste of time.

Stripes130,
At some levels I may quietly warn 3 times before I make it official on a defenders throw-in plane violation, because when I record the warning, I am locking myself in for the rest of the game.
If I do see a potential (borderline, 6-8 inches (i.e.hands, but no wrist)) violation, then I judge as to whether the thrower is being handi-capped by the defnders actions. (A narrow sideline may easily magnify any disadvantage to the thrower.)
I really don't want to make the warning, or the subsequent "T" call, unless it is very BIG and everyone in the gym can see it, because I don't like the penalty either.
Try, if you will, applying the advantage/disadvantage principle and you may find this an easier rule with which to live.
mick