Question on Timeouts

[grizwald]

There is a discussion on an internet site that I frequent regarding the much discussed issue of players on their way out of bounds calling a timeout. I've read discussions here on this issue and my question really wasn't about this issue directly just a couple of things some people have posted in response on that site. I wanted to clarrify a couple of things that I think are wrong in their arguments. So I came here to you fine people, since you've been on the money regarding other rules questions I've had in the past.

First - A guy is is claiming that you have to both signal a timeout with your hands and call timeout before it will be granted.

I think I've seen discussions here saying that you guys would prefer that they do it this way and may even suggest to players and coaches that they do it this way to avoid confussion. But do the rules require it? Looking at the NCAA rules they tell the timer to stop the game clock when either an oral or visual request for timeout is granted. So that would make me think this guy is wrong.

Next - A guy is claiming that for example. The ball deflects off b1 during a pass or dribble. B1 is falling out of bounds why does he have possession enough to call a timeout but not possession enough for the shot clock to reset if he saves the ball to team A or falls OOB? I was just curious to hear the answer from you guys. I'm sure his logic is flawed, but I wondered where.

As always, thanks for the enjoyable reads. I read here alot even though I rarely post.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grizwald

First - A guy is is claiming that you have to both signal a timeout with your hands and call timeout before it will be granted.

I think I've seen discussions here saying that you guys would prefer that they do it this way and may even suggest to players and coaches that they do it this way to avoid confussion. But do the rules require it? Looking at the NCAA rules they tell the timer to stop the game clock when either an oral or visual request for timeout is granted. So that would make me think this guy is wrong.

I do not know what guys prefer as to do with this issue. A timeout can be granted verbally or visually in either the NF or NCAA (without knowing the current changes).

Originally Posted by grizwald

Next - A guy is claiming that for example. The ball deflects off b1 during a pass or dribble. B1 is falling out of bounds why does he have possession enough to call a timeout but not possession enough for the shot clock to reset if he saves the ball to team A or falls OOB? I was just curious to hear the answer from you guys. I'm sure his logic is flawed, but I wondered where.

I think you are confusing a couple of issues (not necessarily you, but the person making the argument). The rules allow for a player to have control of the ball and call a timeout at the NF and NCAA levels (NCAA is rumored to change this for next year). The shot clock has to do with the ball touching the rim, not whether you have possession or not. You cannot use logic from one rule and take it to another rule. Calling a timeout and the shot clock resetting are two entirely different things.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

"A guy is is claiming that you have to both signal a timeout with your hands and call timeout before it will be granted."

He's full of crap. Tell him to cite the correct rule reference.

NFH 5-8-3
Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:
Grants a player's/head coach's oral or visual request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is in control or at the disposal of a player of his/her team.
b. The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured player(s), or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a substitute(s) is available and required.

"B1 is falling out of bounds why does he have possession enough to call a timeout but not possession enough for the shot clock to reset if he saves the ball to team A or falls OOB?"

If the defense gains possession of the ball while still inbounds, the shot clock would reset and he can request TO. If he doesn't gain possession until he lands OOB, there is no shot clock reset because team control was never established by the defense. His premise is false.

[Camron Rust]

Some years ago, it was necessary to request a timeout orally. A visual signal was not acceptable. It made sense...but was not legal. The rules committee wised up and changed the rule to allow either form.

[rockyroad]

Just got the Rules Proposals for NCAAW - already approved by the Rules Committee, just have to go to the Playing Committee...one of the rule changes addresses this time-out situation and says:

"A time-out shall NOT be recognized when an airborne player's momentum carries him/her either out-of-bounds or into the backcourt. Rationale: Often the player has already committed a violation before the time-out is granted. This play is happening too frequently in the game today."

Interesting...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

"A time-out shall NOT be recognized when an airborne player's momentum carries him/her either out-of-bounds or into the backcourt. Rationale: Often the player has already committed a violation before the time-out is granted. This play is happening too frequently in the game today."

Interesting...

Interesting indeed, I am not understanding the rationale. Are they saying that by the time the official recognizes the request and grants the time-out it will have appeared that the player has committed a violation? (ie: landed OOB or in the BC)

[Ref_ Fred]

Questions, if the player is airborn while going out of bounds.

Is the player actually in possession of the ball while he is airborn? If he didn't have possession while in bounds( when does he actually gain possesion of the ball)?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Interesting indeed, I am not understanding the rationale. Are they saying that by the time the official recognizes the request and grants the time-out it will have appeared that the player has committed a violation? (ie: landed OOB or in the BC)

I'm not sure that I am following the rationale either...it will be interesting to hear the explanations at the meetings next fall.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

Questions, if the player is airborn while going out of bounds.

Is the player actually in possession of the ball while he is airborn? If he didn't have possession while in bounds( when does he actually gain possesion of the ball)?

Possesssion is holding the ball with control.

[ChuckElias]

Can you hold the ball without control?

[Ref_ Fred]

So control means, how long, a split second, i'm not sure I see the control piece. The player will be airborn and on the ground in less than a second.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

So control means, how long, a split second, i'm not sure I see the control piece. The player will be airborn and on the ground in less than a second.

Maybe they're going the way of the NFL and saying you have to demonstrate a basketball move to show control

You know, similar to the way Troy Palumalu didn't have control against the Colts

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Can you hold the ball without control?

Yes - if you are OOB.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Just got the Rules Proposals for NCAAW - already approved by the Rules Committee, just have to go to the Playing Committee...one of the rule changes addresses this time-out situation and says:

"A time-out shall NOT be recognized when an airborne player's momentum carries him/her either out-of-bounds or into the backcourt. Rationale: Often the player has already committed a violation before the time-out is granted. This play is happening too frequently in the game today."

Interesting...

Bad rule.

I've had times where a TO is requested, and when I grant the request, B has the ball. Should I ignore the request?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

So control means, how long, a split second, i'm not sure I see the control piece. The player will be airborn and on the ground in less than a second.

there is no time requirement. If the demonstrate control and can make the request before you land OOB, it's legal in NFHS.