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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 01:56pm
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Camps for dummies?

At the Caldwell camp last year or the year before, I heard somone say that everything you do at camp is observed and or leaves an impression.

Having said that, I was wondering if some camp veterans could chime in on some tips that you would suggest to someone that is going to a camp. (I mean big camps like Coast 2 Coast, Derosas or Kelley's etc).

Should you bring an officiating resume?
Game Attire?
Off court attire?
Attitude?
Approach to meetings (lots of questions or just listen?)
Approach to games?
Approach to calls? So you go by the book or do you stick with advantage / disadvantage?
Hospitalities that include alcohol - beer or no beer?
Anything else you can think of

One other thought I had...in sales, we always try to make sure at some point, you ask the prospect for their business. Now, I know most of us wouldnt go right at an assignor and say gimme games but is there a tactful or suggested way to communicate with the camp directors should the opportunity arise? something more than "how was the weather last week in _________?" but something obviously less than "do I get some games or what?"

Thanks,

Larks

Last edited by Larks; Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:04pm.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 02:01pm
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Musical advice on behavior: don't be sharp, don't be flat, just be natural.

Advice on how to ask for work: "Do I have a realistic opportunity to be picked up in your league?" If the answer is yes, ask the timeframe.

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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 02:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larks
At the Caldwell camp last year or the year before, I heard somone say that everything you do at camp is observed and or leaves an impression.

Having said that, I was wondering if some camp veterans could chime in on some tips that you would suggest to someone that is going to a camp. (I mean big camps like Coast 2 Coast, Derosas or Kelley's etc).

Should you being an officiating resume?
Game Attire?
Off court attire?
Attitude?
Approach to meetings (lots of questions or just listen?)
Approach to games?
Approach to calls? So you go by the book or do you stick with advantage / disadvantage?
Hospitalities that include alcohol - beer or no beer?
Anything else you can think of

One other thought I had...in sales, we always try to make sure at some point, you ask the prospect for their business. Now, I know most of us wouldnt go right at an assignor and say gimme games but is there a tactful or suggested way to communicate with the camp directors should the opportunity arise? something more than "how was the weather last week in _________?" but something obviously less than "do I get some games or what?"

Thanks,

Larks
Game Attire: shorts, fitted stripe shirt and shined shoes.

Off Court Attire: Keep your mouth shut, listen to as much as you can and be eager to learn from instructors even when off the court.

Attitude: POSITIVE! Keep your mouth shut and listen. Always thankyou and ask if there's anything else they noticed. Just show that you are eager to learn and want to get better, very similar to off court attitude.

Approach to meetings: I wouldn't recommend being 'that guy' who has to ask a question on every subject or point.

Approach to games: Hustle hustle hustle. Get in position, call your game the best you can do. If they see you being lazy they won't forget it. Just work hard to try and call a great game.

Approach to calls: Call YOUR Game. Don't call a rulebook game, they don't want rulebook officials, they want to see you let players play through minimal contact and for you to blow your whistle when someone was disadvantaged.

Hospitalities that include alcohol - beer or no beer? I don't think it really matters, its probably good to sit back and have a cold one with the guys but it probably wouldn't be a good idea to get tanked.

I think you should sit down and ask yourself, if you were an assignor what would you be looking for in an official. As I mentioned before, they don't want rulebook officials. They want someone who looks like they belong out there, looks comfortable, looks in control when necessary, ect.

Also if you don't like something an evaluator tells you, say okay and DO IT. You don't have to do it when you get home but do it their way when you are there. Again, keep your mouth shut and listen. And don't say "yea, but." If you have one incident of giving them crap when they are trying to HELP you they will not want to help you anymore. And I can assure you, they will tell the story to all other other evaluators.

One thing, when I say keep your mouth shut, it does not mean say anything the entire time you're there. Be interactive with the evaluators, if you don't understand ask them what do you mean or something like that. That means you are interested and want to get it right. What I do mean is don't talk about other campers, evaluators ect. Be very receptive you advice and crit. even if it is mean or something you don't agree with.

As far as your last paragraph goes, I would not try to go let someone know you are interested. If they like you and if they like your game then they will come to you.

Good luck, have fun at camp.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 02:48pm
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I think Snake Eyes has some great things to say, as I'm sure many others in this forum will.

Someone at a camp said to me a while back to "treat it as a buffet table"... take what you want, leave what you don't. The one thing you should do is listen to everyone. You don't ahve to use everything you hear, but to get your money's worth, you should listen to everything you can.

Off court attire... I've always found that a golf shirt and a nice pair of shorts is acceptable. I've heard people say that you shouldn't wear shirts or hats with team logos on it (especially teams from that league), I've never bought much into that, but I can see where they are coming from.

How to call games... One simple rule: Call the Obvious. If you are planning on going to a camp to get into a certain league, try and see a game or two (either in person or on film) between two teams in that league. That should give you an idea of what the supervisor is looking for. Plus, if you happen to see the officials that worked one of those games at the camp, you have something that you can use to start a conversation.

Definitely don't be a "yeah-but" guy. It makes you look bad and after you do it once, you lose a lot of credibility. If someone says something, say thanks and if you don't like it, forget it as soon as you walk away.

I've always had a pad of paper and a pen during classroom sessions. Even if you never use it, the fact that you have it and people see that, makes it look good. Defintely don't ask too many questions, but don't sit in the back and doze off.

Many supervisors like people to interact with each other at "socials" in the evenings. Have a good time, talk to as many people as you can... work the room, but don't get wasted. Yes, they are looking for guys that can call the game, but they are also looking for good people.

I wouldn't worry about coming right out and asking the supervisor when you can get in the league. They obviously know you are interested in joining if you paid the money to come to camp. At the end of camp, be sure to thank them for having you. A simple "Thanks for the opportunity. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you down the road" as you are leaving will usually suffice. That last impression is always a good one before you get in the car to go home.

I'll be interested to hear what other people have to say. This forum is a good group of people. I'm sure this will be a good topic.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 02:50pm
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Be prepared for anything off the court. If you think for just a second that you will have to be in a suit, bring the suit.

Bring the resume if you have it. Just do not bring it out until someone asks for it.

When an evaluator is talking and you are watching, listen to what they have to say. Do not just sit back as if you are not interested in the conversation or the point that is being made. You can learn more about what to do by what evaluators say to other officials than.

Do not have a lot of side conversations which might be misinterpreted. For example, do not talk a lot about what is going on during other official's games. Focus on what is taking place and do not say a word. No one cares what your opinion is about a missed call or mechanic that is used. That can be perceived as if you are bad mouthing your fellow campers or that you are disagreeing with what the evaluators are teaching.

Just get used to the fact that you will be told different things from one evaluator and then something totally different from another evaluator. Nod your head and agree and do not make this a big deal. Not everyone comes from the exact same background and experience. If you are told something from an individual, they are sharing what works for them. It very well might not work for you or the other evaluators. Also do not go around telling everyone that two evaluators told you something different. If you have learned nothing from this site you can see how different many of us feel about officiating and what our role is.

This might not sound like a big deal, but if the camp director wants you to pay them a specific way, pay them a specific way. I was at a camp last year and I had worked some games before attending this camp and I was given a solid $50 bill. I was attending a one day camp that was run by a D1 assignor. I was the first one at the camp and when the assignor/camp director started taking money I gave him this $50. He made it clear that he did not want to make change and wanted people to give him in cash the exact amount. He made a comment in front of everyone at the camp, "You might just get hired yet." In talking later to a mentor of mine (who happens to work for this D1 assignor in his conference and worked his first NCAA Tournament game this year) he told me that I was #1 in that camp at the very beginning. The only reason I would have fell below number one is if I did something wrong during the camp. Now I did not think I had any realistic chance to get hired, but the point my mentor was trying to make is that I followed instructions. Amazingly a lot of other campers gave the camp director/assignor three $20 bills or other money that did not equal an exact $50. You could tell he was not happy with that either.

The best way to put it these camps are job interviews. Even if the camp is an "instructional" camp, you do not want to take yourself off the radar because you screwed something up during the camp or give the wrong impression of what you are about.

I hope some of this helps.

Peace
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 03:44pm
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Don't get me wrong you have to be able to referee with a crap to get hired, but I think throughout camp you are off the floor in front of the evaluators more than you are on it in front of the evaluators. I always tell my boys "come clean", meaning look better than presentable. At the entry level SEC camp I went to we were in the Military. We had shorts that came half way up our thighs and it had the SEC logo on it. They gave us two SEC logoed T-shirts and we had to wear this everywhere we went with the shirt tucked in. At the other camps I would wear athletic wear with it tucked in. For example I might wear khaki shorts with some kind of nice nike T-shirt or polo. I might wear my nike shorts with a nike T or polo.

All in all just look better than presentable and have a great meet and greet personality. I always say evaluators are like coaches looking for that one bench player, the one that doesn't hurt you when you play him, doesn't hurt you in the locker room, or hurt and badly reflect what kind of team character he or she is trying to build and obtain.
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 04:05pm
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I know Larks is asking for advice for those attending a big time camp, hoping to get picked up. I cannot offer any advice...but it struck me as I was reading through this thread that everything said is applicable to EVERY camp.

For most officials (especially me), the "Big Time" camp is the one put on by, or near, you local chapter and assignors. Lots of good advice for anyone trying to get the attention of the assignment secretary and get a better schedule next year.

Big time is relative to your current place in officiating...Keep 'em coming
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 05:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by refTN
you have to be able to referee with a crap to get hired.
I don't even know what to say about this. . .

As to the original question, tho, I will agree with Dan. Be professional, but be yourself. As Dan will tell you, I'm not smart enough to copy someone else's style and pull it off. So I kind of have to be myself. But if you try to sound better than you are or if you try to be something you're not, it won't work, IMHO. Your work on the court will tell the evaluators what they need to know, so just go and do your best and try to have a little fun (very hard to do when you're trying to get hired, I know).
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Old Fri Apr 07, 2006, 05:41pm
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It's not very complicated.

Be yourself. Look presentable at all times. If you bring the beer gut with you to camp, it ain't gonna happen.

Ref your game. Hustle.

Be nice and respectful to everyone, but don't be a kiss-***.

Take all input with a great attitude.

Have fun and smile. Let the chips fall where they may.

Not that much different than a regular season game.

Z

Last edited by zebraman; Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 05:43pm.
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