NFHS Player leaving bench area

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Is there a rule which would prohibit a player from leaving the bench area to run to the locker room and return later? Not talking about injury.

Thanks.

Joel

[Dribble]

Nope...legal...think of the blood on the shirt rule to change. They MUST leave the visual confines of the playing area.

The only rule that comes to mind that prohibits leaving the bench area would be for a fight, but that's coming onto the court.

[ChuckElias]

There was a POE in '04-'05 that said that coaches should not allow players to leave the bench unattended. They used examples like going for a drink in the hallway or sitting with friends in the stands. I would prefer to see the kid be accompanied by an adult, although I'm not sure I would T for it, which I think is what the POE wanted us to do.

[zebraman]

Even when NFHS wants us to do something "by the book," I think you always need to figure it common sense. Let me give you an example.

I'm reffing at our state's girls B state tournament about a month ago. It's one of our evaluated games which determines if we get to officiate a semi-final game or not. We have about 4 minutes left in the game and one of my partner's calls the fifth foul on a player so she gets DQ'd and replaced.

I'm lead and about to administer the free-throw when I see the DQ'd player get up and run to the other team's bench. She shakes hands with their coach and then runs back to her own bench to sit down. I think to myself, "I've never seen that before, but good sportsmanship" and I am about to adminster the second FT. T trail official puts his hand up and comes running to me. He says, "I'm going to give a technical foul on that player for leaving the bench area." I said, "but she was just being a good sport!" He says, "nope, I'm giving the T."

I wave my center official in and say, "he wants to give a T to that girl. I think it's good sportsmanship. What do you think?" He says, "we aren't giving a T for good sportsmanship." My original partner relents and the game goes on without incident.

I think every rule, and even a POE, needs some common sense.

Z

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Even when NFHS wants us to do something "by the book," I think you always need to figure it common sense. Let me give you an example.

I'm reffing at our state's girls B state tournament about a month ago. It's one of our evaluated games which determines if we get to officiate a semi-final game or not. We have about 4 minutes left in the game and one of my partner's calls the fifth foul on a player so she gets DQ'd and replaced.

I'm lead and about to administer the free-throw when I see the DQ'd player get up and run to the other team's bench. She shakes hands with their coach and then runs back to her own bench to sit down. I think to myself, "I've never seen that before, but good sportsmanship" and I am about to adminster the second FT. T trail official puts his hand up and comes running to me. He says, "I'm going to give a technical foul on that player for leaving the bench area." I said, "but she was just being a good sport!" He says, "nope, I'm giving the T."

I wave my center official in and say, "he wants to give a T to that girl. I think it's good sportsmanship. What do you think?" He says, "we aren't giving a T for good sportsmanship." My original partner relents and the game goes on without incident.

I think every rule, and even a POE, needs some common sense.

Z

A perfect illustration of the role that officials play during a game: interpret and apply the rules, as written, in an equitable manner to achieve fairness for both teams.

I hope you and your partner received the appropriate evaulation based on your excellent judgement.

[deecee]

with the rules, or at least some of them, and how they are written is that a good number of officials -- higher than 10% -- apply them to literally. I honestly dont give a rats a$$ if a player gets up to go get a drink of water by himself. I mean its not like its Ron Artest running around the stadium to fight another player who just got ejected too.

Ref: *tweet* technical foul on white 45.
Coach: What the deuce? huh....what just happend? what did he do?.....im lost
Ref: Coach your player got off the bench.
Coach: Yes players tend to do that sometimes when they are thirsty as water doesnt go to them.

I mean really how can you even entertain that thought.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Even when NFHS wants us to do something "by the book," I think you always need to figure it common sense. Let me give you an example.

I'm reffing at our state's girls B state tournament about a month ago. It's one of our evaluated games which determines if we get to officiate a semi-final game or not. We have about 4 minutes left in the game and one of my partner's calls the fifth foul on a player so she gets DQ'd and replaced.

I'm lead and about to administer the free-throw when I see the DQ'd player get up and run to the other team's bench. She shakes hands with their coach and then runs back to her own bench to sit down. I think to myself, "I've never seen that before, but good sportsmanship" and I am about to adminster the second FT. T trail official puts his hand up and comes running to me. He says, "I'm going to give a technical foul on that player for leaving the bench area." I said, "but she was just being a good sport!" He says, "nope, I'm giving the T."

I wave my center official in and say, "he wants to give a T to that girl. I think it's good sportsmanship. What do you think?" He says, "we aren't giving a T for good sportsmanship." My original partner relents and the game goes on without incident.

I think every rule, and even a POE, needs some common sense.

Z

Z, just so I can understand this common sense approach. (I am growing here so I can become a state level official). It was inconvenient for the DQed player to shake the hand of the opposing coach prior to her going to the bench? IMO, she should have done that within the 30 sec replacement time. Way to support your fellow official!!

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by deecee

with the rules, or at least some of them, and how they are written is that a good number of officials -- higher than 10% -- apply them to literally. I honestly dont give a rats a$$ if a player gets up to go get a drink of water by himself. I mean its not like its Ron Artest running around the stadium to fight another player who just got ejected too.

Ref: *tweet* technical foul on white 45.
Coach: What the deuce? huh....what just happend? what did he do?.....im lost
Ref: Coach your player got off the bench.
Coach: Yes players tend to do that sometimes when they are thirsty as water doesnt go to them.

I mean really how can you even entertain that thought.

IMO, totally different situation. Water is located at the end of the bench area. The player crossing the division line to "display sportmanship" in not the bench area.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Z, just so I can understand this common sense approach. (I am growing here so I can become a state level official). It was inconvenient for the DQed player to shake the hand of the opposing coach prior to her going to the bench? IMO, she should have done that within the 30 sec replacement time. Way to support your fellow official!!

Hopefully, when you've grown to the level where you're being invited to a state championship, you'll understand why Z did what he did.

Calling a "T" in that particular situation sureasheck isn't a common sense approach imo.

There's certain battles that have to be won. This isn't one of them.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hopefully, when you've grown to the level where you're being invited to a state championship, you'll understand why Z did what he did.

Calling a "T" in that particular situation sureasheck isn't a common sense approach imo.

There's certain battles that have to be won. This isn't one of them.

Amen, Jurassic. Please, please, please DON'T call a T in that situation. It is the absolute wrong thing to do.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

A perfect illustration of the role that officials play during a game: interpret and apply the rules, as written, in an equitable manner to achieve fairness for both teams.

I hope you and your partner received the appropriate evaulation based on your excellent judgement.

Thanks, we did.

Z

[deecee]

water is not always at the end of the bench -- many lower level games the away team has to bring their own water -- many times they dont -- so if a player doesnt have his own stash he need to go get some from somewhere -- unless you allow players to drill to get some ground water truerookie --

IMO, totally different situation. Water is located at the end of the bench area. The player crossing the division line to "display sportmanship" in not the bench area.

go ahead call this t -- the only thing you will be growing into will be a steady stream of JV games.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Z, just so I can understand this common sense approach. (I am growing here so I can become a state level official). It was inconvenient for the DQed player to shake the hand of the opposing coach prior to her going to the bench? IMO, she should have done that within the 30 sec replacement time. Way to support your fellow official!!

YES! She should have gone to the opposing bench before she was replaced. But she didn't. So you ignore it and move on. You don't call a T in such a situation and draw attention to yourself.

This is exactly the type of thinking that will keep you working middle school and JV games.

Truerookie, don't be a plumber.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

water is not always at the end of the bench -- many lower level games the away team has to bring their own water -- many times they dont -- so if a player doesnt have his own stash he need to go get some from somewhere -- unless you allow players to drill to get some ground water truerookie --

go ahead call this t -- the only thing you will be growing into will be a steady stream of JV games.

Do they ignore POE's in your area, deecee?

From the 2004-05 rule book:
POE 3A: The committee is also concerned about bench personnel leaving the bench, sometimes during a live ball. Heading into the hallway to get a drink or sitting up in the stands with friends or family, even for a short period of time are not authorized reasons unless they are medically related. Coaches must ensure that bench personnel stay on the bench."

The idea behind the idea was to not have bench personnel wandering all over the place and remain in their bench area. We instuct our officials to enforce the POE with a "don't do that". Iow, just shoo 'em back to the bench if they're wandering. If they don't wanna listen to you, hey, then it's on them. If our officials don't want to enforce it uniformly the way that we advise them to, then they ain't gonna get JV games.

[deecee]

why are they concerend about bench players leaving their bench to get a drink? what concern is that of ours? that to me is the coaches problem and not the officials -- if there is a good reason then let me hear it.