LSU/Stanford charge (Women's)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I said that in late game situations that players should be allowed to decide games. It goes back about 5 weeks ago to the Sheldon Williams no call at the end of the FSU game. I thought it was a foul. There was obvious body contact, but the official chose to pass on it. Why? Situation, last 5 sec. of the game. I guess your going to call the slightly displacing hand check with 3 sec. to go in the NCAA Regional semis too huh? Get real. Augustus was leaning away from the contact (already in flop mode), not to mention the fact that the ball was already gone. This is one IMO (note to jackass MY OPINION) that could/should have been passed on.

Now my opinion......

You're wrong and I disagree completely with your philosophy.

You should call something in the last 5 seconds of a game the same way that you called it in the first 39 minutes and 55 seconds. Iow, if it's a foul all game, then it's a foul at the end. To call it any other way is ridiculous imo. And you're not letting the players decide the game either; you're deciding the game by not calling a foul if one occurs. Jmo, but most officials who use that "let the players decide the game" argument are officials who lack the testicular fortitude to make the tough call at the end of a game and use that argument as a cop-out.

As for the Augustus call, I didn't see it so I can't really comment. I will say that "leaning away" from the contact does not constitute an automatic no-call or a "flop". A defender is allowed to protect themselves....and that protection includes leaning away to lessen contact. A "flop" is faking a foul with little or no contact. If a defender with LGP leans away from the contact and still gets run over, that's a legitimate charge.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Now my opinion......

You're wrong and I disagree completely with your philosophy.

You should call something in the last 5 seconds of a game the same way that you called it in the first 39 minutes and 55 seconds. Iow, if it's a foul all game, then it's a foul at the end. To call it any other way is ridiculous imo. And you're not letting the players decide the game either; you're deciding the game by not calling a foul if one occurs. Jmo, but most officials who use that "let the players decide the game" argument are officials who lack the testicular fortitude to make the tough call at the end of a game and use that argument as a cop-out.

As for the Augustus call, I didn't see it so I can't really comment. I will say that "leaning away" from the contact does not constitute an automatic no-call or a "flop". A defender is allowed to protect themselves....and that protection includes leaning away to lessen contact. A "flop" is faking a foul with little or no contact. If a defender with LGP leans away from the contact and still gets run over, that's a legitimate charge.

Again that is completely your OPINION. As for the testicular fortitude comment, you know where you can cram that. We are speaking of and to the LSU game, so if you didnt see the play or call then why open your big mouth? The L who was standing right in front of the play obiously saw the play the same way I saw it.....some contact, a little acting, and a pass that had already been made making it an away from the ball foul. The L, who's call it was, chose to pass. However, my take on you, I guess, along with the official who made the call is that you like the spotlight. You like to tweet on your whistle and make the "game changing call." Some officials like the limelight, others see more (ie. magnitude of the game, situation, severity). If Wiggins had been going to the basket in an attempt to score then yes, I could live with a charge being called at that point in a game of that magnitude. However, the ball was already in the hands of the shooter, when the contact occurred and the whistle blew. That call allowed LSU to advance. The Rutgers shooter continued with the shot and knocked it down. Please dont comment on things you havent seen. And further you too are generalizing my statement. My statement was that players should be allowed to decide games, not that it's no holds barred, anything goes in the last few sec. of a game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

As for the testicular fortitude comment, you know where you can cram that.

We are speaking of and to the LSU game, so if you didnt see the play or call then why open your big mouth?

However, my take on you, I guess, along with the official who made the call is that you like the spotlight. You like to tweet on your whistle and make the "game changing call."

OK, how about this then, seeing as I deliberately tried to stay away from name-calling in my first post?

You're a clueless jerk that doesn't know one damn thing about officiating. You also got no balls if you're afraid to blow your whistle at the end of a game.

That's my take on you.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

OK, how about this then, seeing as I deliberately tried to stay away from name-calling in my first post?

You're a clueless jerk that doesn't know one damn thing about officiating. You also got no balls if you're afraid to blow your whistle at the end of a game.

That's my take on you.

Thats cute!! You tried to stay away from name calling??? LOL. Thats funny. Your idea of staying away from name calling is telling people that choose not to make a call in a certain situation that they have no testicular fortitude. Thats funny. I guess the L in the Regional Semis of the NCAA tourny has none then, buy you do.

I respect your opinion on the matter. It's obvious that by throwing around words like testicular fortitude or lack thereof that you dont respect mine. This entire post was addressing a particular call in a particular game, which you never saw. So explain why you feel the need to interject your opinion as being correct and those opposing have NO BALLS, when you have no F'in idea what we are talking about????

As for my take on YOU. You are the guy who loves the limelight. Your the one dictating the game with YOUR whistle. If there is a controversial call, YOUR the guy to make it. YOUR the guy that both coaches dislike and the fans are always yelling at. WHY?? B/c you love the attention. It's much needed b/c you sucked when you played and never received any. It's your CHANCE TO BE SEEN AND HEARD!! It's cool there are more like YOU.

[tomegun]

I have to stop ignoring threads because of their title! I have heard officials say "make sure any foul is a obvious one" at the end of games. I have heard other things as well. I saw this play one time and it was something that I think needed a whistle.
So, two elite 8 officials made decisions; one decided to put air in the whistle and one decided not to. What makes you think you are right because you would do the same thing the L did? Also, yes the L in the regional might not have any balls. As soon as we realize a NCAA official isn't God we will be able to look at the games more objectively and learn.
When you talk about officials that want the limelight you are showing signs of an official who would shy away from tough calls. That isn't something you can determine by your comeback post, that is something you have to look within to discover. Sometimes the game needs a jerk in black and white (with raised hand), "I can do that!" Are you safe or are you willing to go to the edge? An official can work 127 NCAA games and still be safe! (couldn't resist that one).

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I have to stop ignoring threads because of their title! I have heard officials say "make sure any foul is a obvious one" at the end of games. I have heard other things as well. I saw this play one time and it was something that I think needed a whistle.
So, two elite 8 officials made decisions; one decided to put air in the whistle and one decided not to. What makes you think you are right because you would do the same thing the L did? Also, yes the L in the regional might not have any balls. As soon as we realize a NCAA official isn't God we will be able to look at the games more objectively and learn.
When you talk about officials that want the limelight you are showing signs of an official who would shy away from tough calls. That isn't something you can determine by your comeback post, that is something you have to look within to discover. Sometimes the game needs a jerk in black and white (with raised hand), "I can do that!" Are you safe or are you willing to go to the edge? An official can work 127 NCAA games and still be safe! (couldn't resist that one).

I am assuming this post is for me. However, I'm not sure why. I 2 days ago that I thought (just MO) it was a bad call. I in no way said that I was correct. It was MO. Today, JR decided and you can see for your self exactly what he said, that my post was stupid and that it was completely wrong. Decisions just like the one made in the LSU vs. Rutgers game are made all over the country everday on things like over the back, hand checking, etc... Some officials chose to make the call and others chose to pass. Does it mean that they have "no balls." No it means that they didnt think it deserved a call.

There is a big difference between an official who likes to see his name in lights and an official affraid to make a call. The L in game we were talking about was 2 feet from the contact and chose to pass, I pressume b/c of the location of the ball at the time of contact, the situation of the game, and the overexcentuation of the charge by Augustus. The other official however saw it differently and (it was a woman, so she didnt have balls, for all you BALLS fans) made the call. Was it right or wrong?? In her eyes, it had to be made. In the L's eyes it was a no call, and I agree. Two NCAA tourny officials not agreeing on a call, imagine that. What I can assure you is that the official making the call didnt go to the locker room and tell the other that he had "no balls," unlike JR is telling me. GROW UP, I wasnt claiming nor did I ever that I was correct. I simply stated my opinion. And JR decided to start the name calling by telling me how stupid my opinion was and that I was completely wrong.

[jeffpea]

Seems to be a little heated in this thread...........

When I saw the play live, I thought it was a foul. There was a large amount of contact on the play - not a little, but a large amount of contact. I was surprised that the T made the call - but it was the right call.

As to whether I, or any other official in this forum, would have made that call - I would like to say yes, but until I am working a Regional Final and have a collision like that in the last :04 of the game, I can't say for sure....

Nate1224hoops, Jurassic Referee, and everyone else - it's great that you have opinions and a desire to share them. You shouldn't resort to the personal attacks that this has digressed into. Ultimately you both are right (to a certain extent) - one official made the call; one official didn't. Whether you would make the same judgement during the exact same situation remains to be seen.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

Seems to be a little heated in this thread...........

When I saw the play live, I thought it was a foul. There was a large amount of contact on the play - not a little, but a large amount of contact. I was surprised that the T made the call - but it was the right call.

As to whether I, or any other official in this forum, would have made that call - I would like to say yes, but until I am working a Regional Final and have a collision like that in the last :04 of the game, I can't say for sure....

Nate1224hoops, Jurassic Referee, and everyone else - it's great that you have opinions and a desire to share them. You shouldn't resort to the personal attacks that this has digressed into. Ultimately you both are right (to a certain extent) - one official made the call; one official didn't. Whether you would make the same judgement during the exact same situation remains to be seen.

Thats exactly what I just said. I'm glad someone understands. I said nothing until he attacked me. To beat it all he never saw the play, just wanted to tell me about testicular fortititude. I agree who's right in this situation?? Everyone. It's a subjective call, subject to person holding the whistle.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

The L in game we were talking about was 2 feet from the contact and chose to pass, I pressume,

In the L's eyes it was a no call, and I agree. .

The only disagreement I have with your posts Nate is these two statements... you really don't know what was going on with the L...maybe he chose to pass, but it could also be that he was waiting to see if the T would make the call first. Since the play originated from the T's primary the L could simply have been waiting an extra beat to give the T first crack at the call. In which case, if the T doesn't call it, the L quite possibly could have stepped in with the call. T did, so L didn't have to. So to just assume that the L was not going to call anything and use that as the basis for your argument here is really a bit of a stretch for me...I am not disagreeing with your philosophy, just not sure that you can make the assumptions you have been making from this play.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The only disagreement I have with your posts Nate is these two statements... you really don't know what was going on with the L...maybe he chose to pass, but it could also be that he was waiting to see if the T would make the call first. Since the play originated from the T's primary the L could simply have been waiting an extra beat to give the T first crack at the call. In which case, if the T doesn't call it, the L quite possibly could have stepped in with the call. T did, so L didn't have to. So to just assume that the L was not going to call anything and use that as the basis for your argument here is really a bit of a stretch for me...I am not disagreeing with your philosophy, just not sure that you can make the assumptions you have been making from this play.

Your exactly right. I only PRESUME that to be the reason that the L didnt make the call. The reason that I feel this way is b/c it is the L call. It is the L primary. The T official followed the ball being closely guarded practically to the low block to make sure no illegal contact was being made. It would be real hard for the T to do all that plus make sure that Augustus was in LGP and set to take the charge. I feel that the call was out of area, regardless of right or wrong. But your are right. However, you can't say without speculation that that is not why the L didnt blow the whistle. He may have chosen to pass on the call, but anyway I understand your point.

[Tom M.]

Did I miss something on this play but why did LSU shoot the foul shots? If this was a team control foul, which I believe it was because the ball had clearly left the offensive players hands on the pass then the contact occurred. Wouldn't LSA get the ball a spot of the foul. Doesn't team control exists on a pass. In any event I thought Augustus took the free throws.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Tom M.

Did I miss something on this play but why did LSU shoot the foul shots? If this was a team control foul, which I believe it was because the ball had clearly left the offensive players hands on the pass then the contact occurred. Wouldn't LSA get the ball a spot of the foul. Doesn't team control exists on a pass. In any event I thought Augustus took the free throws.

She did. But she received the ball on in the inbounds pass and was fouled.

[Tom M.]

Did I miss somthing on this play but why did LSU shoot the free throws. I had it as a team control foul. The ball had clearly left the offensive players hands on the pass then the charge occurred.

Doesn't team control exist on a pass and therefore LSU gets the ball at the spot of the foul. No shots. I thought Augustus took the free throws.

[Tom M.]

Did I miss somthing on this play but why did LSU shoot the free throws ? Doesn't team control exist on a pass therefore a team control foul. The ball had clearly left the offensive players hands and then the charge occurred. Should LSU have got the ball at the spot of the foul. I thought Augustus took the free throws.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Tom M.

Did I miss somthing on this play but why did LSU shoot the free throws ? Doesn't team control exist on a pass therefore a team control foul. The ball had clearly left the offensive players hands and then the charge occurred. Should LSU have got the ball at the spot of the foul. I thought Augustus took the free throws.

Tom M., it appears your computer has a virus and keeps transmitting the same post over and over.

LSU took the ball out and Wiggins immediately committed a foul, which was her 5th. She was confused that she had fouled out, probably forgetting that she had just committed her 4th on the charging call.