The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 10:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16
Never had this happen?

I was ask to Ref a 5th Grade Tounament Game. One of the Coaches during the
game is yelling at me "I've got 3 girls crying and there's no foul" My responce
was "Since when is crying a foul". With about 5min to go before halftime I called
a Technical Foul on that Coaches player for throwing a elbow. After the foul
shots were taken she wanted a time out. Thought it would be best to give her
a Time Out to settle her team down. They broke the huddle and the whole team
went and sat on the beach, the Coach called me over to say "Were done here"
"We Quit" I said are you sure you want to do this in front of all these fans.
She said yes. Wow I just shook my head in disbeleaf. I would be surprised come
Monday evening if she is still the head Coach of that program. And I'am sure I'll
be talking to the OHSAA about this one.
Any suggestions?

Nice new look to the Forum
GFS-1
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 10:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Write the report, if there's anyone to submit it to. Include only the facts and the comments from coaches and players that you directly heard. If you have the info, or can get it, include the score and time remaining when the game was forfeited.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 11:03am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFS-1
I was ask to Ref a 5th Grade Tounament Game. One of the Coaches during the
game is yelling at me "I've got 3 girls crying and there's no foul" My responce
was "Since when is crying a foul". With about 5min to go before halftime I called
a Technical Foul on that Coaches player for throwing a elbow. After the foul
shots were taken she wanted a time out. Thought it would be best to give her
a Time Out to settle her team down. They broke the huddle and the whole team
went and sat on the beach, the Coach called me over to say "Were done here"
"We Quit" I said are you sure you want to do this in front of all these fans.
She said yes. Wow I just shook my head in disbeleaf. I would be surprised come
Monday evening if she is still the head Coach of that program. And I'am sure I'll
be talking to the OHSAA about this one.
Any suggestions?

Nice new look to the Forum
GFS-1


With apologies to Tom Hanks: "Crying? There's no crying in basketball."

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 11:04am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFS-1
1) With about 5min to go before halftime I called
a Technical Foul on that Coaches player for throwing a elbow.

2)After the foul shots were taken she wanted a time out. Thought it would be best to give her a Time Out to settle her team down.
Just a coupla technical points from the rules:

1) You can't call a technical foul for an elbow unless the ball was dead at the time. Even then, it would have to be an intentional or flagrant technical foul if contact was involved. If the elbow occurred during a live ball, it's a violation if the elbow misses, and a personal foul of some kind (PC, TC, common, intentional, flagrant) if the elbow connects.

2) There's no thinking as to whether you would grant the time-out or not. If the request is made while the ball is dead or in her team's possession, you have to grant that coach's request. You can't turn it down except for some very specific circumstances at the start or end of a game or an overtime period.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 11:05am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
With apologies to Tom Hanks: "Crying? There's no crying in basketball."

MTD, Sr.
Unless you play for Gonzaga or Duke......

Or you are an Ohio State fan.....
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 11:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
1) You can't call a technical foul for an elbow unless the ball was dead at the time.
Really? If somebody lines up an opponent's chin with an elbow, but misses, I'm going with a T. No violation there. The fact that it's not specifically listed in unsporting acts does not imply that you can't rule it that way. You go for the head, you're not getting away with it just b/c you missed.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 11:20am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Really? If somebody lines up an opponent's chin with an elbow, but misses, I'm going with a T. No violation there. The fact that it's not specifically listed in unsporting acts does not imply that you can't rule it that way. You go for the head, you're not getting away with it just b/c you missed.
If it feels good.....

I can't argue with that logic too much. You could also call it "fighting" if the opponent retaliated to the elbow by throwing a punch.

I was referring to your ordinary, run-of-the-mill elbow, but there could be exceptions.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 11:34am
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
With apologies to Tom Hanks: "Crying? There's no crying in basketball."

MTD, Sr.
According to what we all witnessed after UCLAs win in the Regional Semi, I would tend to disagree.
__________________
Never hit a piņata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
If it feels good.....

I can't argue with that logic too much. You could also call it "fighting" if the opponent retaliated to the elbow by throwing a punch.

I was referring to your ordinary, run-of-the-mill elbow, but there could be exceptions.
I agree, if a player throws a non-contact elbow I will most likely have a flagrant T.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 03:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 226
Send a message via AIM to dave30
Enjoy the forfeit ! You still get paid !
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 03:56pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Really? If somebody lines up an opponent's chin with an elbow, but misses, I'm going with a T. No violation there. The fact that it's not specifically listed in unsporting acts does not imply that you can't rule it that way. You go for the head, you're not getting away with it just b/c you missed.

Chuck:

You have made a very good point. There is a difference between excessively swinging one's elbows and attempting to hit an opponent with an elbow and missing.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 04:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,193
The thing I would do under this situation, as far as the coach saying they wanted to quit, is to emphasize for as long as he or she will remain and listen to me is that you do NOT want to do this. It is setting a VERY bad example for the players and will only get you in a LOT of trouble depending upon the league authority. If that doesn't work, have the coach of the other team go and give it a whirl.

If this is an inseason game in Texas, I will tell the coach point blank: "coach, if you leave the floor with your team, it is very likely you will be suspended for the year and there is a very good chance you are putting your job in jeapordy. You and your team need to stay on the floor." After that, you don't have control of what happens.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 04:28pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFS-1
I was ask to Ref a 5th Grade Tounament Game. One of the Coaches during the
game is yelling at me "I've got 3 girls crying and there's no foul" My responce
was "Since when is crying a foul". With about 5min to go before halftime I called
a Technical Foul on that Coaches player for throwing a elbow. After the foul
shots were taken she wanted a time out. Thought it would be best to give her
a Time Out to settle her team down. They broke the huddle and the whole team
went and sat on the beach, the Coach called me over to say "Were done here"
"We Quit" I said are you sure you want to do this in front of all these fans.
She said yes. Wow I just shook my head in disbeleaf. I would be surprised come
Monday evening if she is still the head Coach of that program. And I'am sure I'll
be talking to the OHSAA about this one.
Any suggestions?

Nice new look to the Forum
GFS-1
First of all this is a 5th grade game I would not worry about it. Coaches at this level are there for a reason. If they understood how to coach or had any coaching ability or basketball background, they would be working somewhere else.

What would the OHSAA have to do with this at all if you do not mind me asking? Is this not a "high school association?"

Peace
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 06:42pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
The thing I would do under this situation, as far as the coach saying they wanted to quit, is to emphasize for as long as he or she will remain and listen to me is that you do NOT want to do this. It is setting a VERY bad example for the players and will only get you in a LOT of trouble depending upon the league authority. If that doesn't work, have the coach of the other team go and give it a whirl.

If this is an inseason game in Texas, I will tell the coach point blank: "coach, if you leave the floor with your team, it is very likely you will be suspended for the year and there is a very good chance you are putting your job in jeapordy. You and your team need to stay on the floor." After that, you don't have control of what happens.
I disagree completely with your philosophy.

It ain't our job to tell a coach what to do ever. It ain't our job to argue with 'em, convince 'em of anything, or try to talk 'em into anything. It also ain't our job to ever threaten a coach with a suspension or a possible job loss; saying something like that could come back and bite you in the butt later on big time. You've already got one extremely pissed-off coach. If you now try to threaten or lecture him, you're only gonna make her madder and possibly escalate a bad situation into a worse one.

Just react to what's going on and say as little as possible. Tell the coach that he's got one minute to put her team on the floor and get the timer to start the clock. If the minute runs down and she's not ready to go, forfeit the game. Then you just write it up as completely as possible and hand it into their league administration or whover handles these cases. It's their job to decide what happens next, not our's.

Jmo.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 26, 2006, 06:46pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
And how would we react if a coach told us OUR job was in jeopardy? Don't go there.
__________________
Never hit a piņata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It CAN happen anywhere U_of_I_Blue Softball 4 Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:32am
It CAN happen anywhere U_of_I_Blue Baseball 9 Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:09pm
Could this happen? lukealex Basketball 22 Tue May 31, 2005 09:22am
this doesn't happen much ChrisSportsFan Basketball 5 Thu Jan 13, 2005 03:09pm
Why does this happen to me? :) Mark Padgett Basketball 9 Mon Dec 27, 1999 01:48am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1