The magic number

[tomegun]

I know many don't like the NBA, but this came up in a Pro-Am meeting last night.

What should the shot clock normally (out of bounds after made basket) say to call a violation?

1. NCAA - 25
2. NCAA - 24

*According to the rule, the NBA should be called differently besides the fact that the shot clock is different.

[AZ_REF]

Using the shot clock to gauge backcourt is a bad idea for a number or reasons. However it depends on the clock. If the clock ticks down at x.9, the first tick from 35 to 34 happens at .1 seconds. When the clock showed 25 there could be 25.9 seconds left.

If the click ticks at x.0, the first tick happens at 1 second. In this case 34.5 would read 35 still. At 25 there could be 24 to 24.99 seconds left in this case.

Locally we had the same discussion with the new reset rule on a kicked ball. One opnion was that if the shot clock read 15 we were to instruct the clock operator to reset it to 15 seconds. However this could be a bad idea due to the reasons outlined above. Hope my math makes sense to everybody.

[brianp134]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I know many don't like the NBA, but this came up in a Pro-Am meeting last night.

What should the shot clock normally (out of bounds after made basket) say to call a violation?

1. NCAA - 25
2. NCAA - 24

*According to the rule, the NBA should be called differently besides the fact that the shot clock is different.

I am in agreement with you that the shot-clock should be 24 for NCAA men & 15 for NBA.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I know many don't like the NBA, but this came up in a Pro-Am meeting last night.

What should the shot clock normally (out of bounds after made basket) say to call a violation?

1. NCAA - 25
2. NCAA - 24

*According to the rule, the NBA should be called differently besides the fact that the shot clock is different.

3. None of the above. The official's count is the count that matters.

I choose #3.

But, the shot clock is set up differently than game clocks. The horn goes off the same moment the shot clock shows 0. There is no delay like with a game clock that shows :00 but doesn't show tenths. So, while the shot clock is showing 1, it's actually at .9, .8, .7, etc. When it shows 35, it could be 34.9, 34.8, etc. That's why the rule says on a re-set on a kicked ball, reset it to 15 even if it says 15, because it's actually at 14.9, 14.8, 14.1, etc.

So, if you were to use the shot clock as an indicator of a 10-sec. violation, the violation occurs when the clock shows 25.

35 = 0 sec.
34 = 1 sec.
33 = 2 sec.
.
.
25 = 10 sec.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by AZ_REF

Locally we had the same discussion with the new reset rule on a kicked ball. One opnion was that if the shot clock read 15 we were to instruct the clock operator to reset it to 15 seconds. However this could be a bad idea due to the reasons outlined above. Hope my math makes sense to everybody.

I don't see why this is an issue 1 way or the other. The rule tells us exactly what to do:

2-14-6f:
When an intentionally kicked ball occurs with 15 seconds or less
remaining, reset to 15 seconds.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I don't see why this is an issue 1 way or the other. The rule tells us exactly what to do:

2-14-6f:
When an intentionally kicked ball occurs with 15 seconds or less
remaining, reset to 15 seconds.

Right, and the reason the rule is written that way is because the shot clock (all shot clocks, afaik) work the way M&M said -- the "actual time" is equal to or fractions less than the time shown.

So, if the shot clock is used for BC violations, call it when the clock hits 25.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Right, and the reason the rule is written that way is because the shot clock (all shot clocks, afaik) work the way M&M said -- the "actual time" is equal to or fractions less than the time shown.

So, if the shot clock is used for BC violations, call it when the clock hits 25.

Oops, I didn't see M&Ms post before I posted mine. I agree 118% with him.

[jritchie]

i was going to say the same thing....if you notice the shot clock when it is reset, it doesn't change for one second....if it changed from 35 to 34 in 1 tenth then you would say 10 seconds would be 24.99....... but since it doesn't change from 35 to 34 for a whole second you can tell that they run differently than the game clocks.....so the 10 or 8 seconds will be actual time shown....25 ncaa and 16 for nba... thanks m&m for the explanation..i agree totally

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jritchie

i was going to say the same thing....if you notice the shot clock when it is reset, it doesn't change for one second....if it changed from 35 to 34 in 1 tenth then you would say 10 seconds would be 24.99....... but since it doesn't change from 35 to 34 for a whole second you can tell that they run differently than the game clocks.....so the 10 or 8 seconds will be actual time shown....25 ncaa and 16 for nba... thanks m&m for the explanation..i agree totally

The NBA has different wording than the NCAA.

Under violations the NCAA says something like, "...10 consecutive seconds..." and the NBA says, "...more than 8 seconds..." IMO, that means the NBA violation would read, "...9 consecutive seconds..." if written the same as the NCAA. What do you guys think?

[Dan_ref]

Tom, I think'you're right.

[M&M Guy]

Just because I'm feelin' picky today, but:

"More than 8 seconds" is not the same thing as "9 consecutive seconds". More than 8 means 8.1 seconds. And, 9 is greater than 8.1, by almost a full second.

I don't follow enough of the NBA rules, but are there other instances where they use this type of language? Granted, in reality, it's probably the same thing. But I'm just wondering why they chose that specific wording.

Gawd, does this mean I'm turning into a NevadaRef?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Just because I'm feelin' picky today, but:

"More than 8 seconds" is not the same thing as "9 consecutive seconds". More than 8 means 8.1 seconds. And, 9 is greater than 8.1, by almost a full second.

Well, more than 8 actually comes a heck of a lot sooner than 8.1. But the timer they use does not recognize that anything between 8 & 9 exists, it justs recognizes 8 seconds and then jumps all the way to 9 seconds.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Gawd, does this mean I'm turning into a NevadaRef?

No, we like him a heck of a lot more. (hmmm...maybe time for a new poll...?)

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Just because I'm feelin' picky today, but:

"More than 8 seconds" is not the same thing as "9 consecutive seconds". More than 8 means 8.1 seconds. And, 9 is greater than 8.1, by almost a full second.

So I guess it would be, "...8.1 consecutive seconds..." OR "...8.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000001 consecutive seconds..."

Now that clears up any possible misunderstanding!

[tomegun]

I like the more with the new system. They are different aren't they?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

So I guess it would be, "...8.1 consecutive seconds..." OR "...8.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000001 consecutive seconds..."

Now that clears up any possible misunderstanding!

I think it's 8.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000005 consecutive seconds myself...