KY Referee Squabble - Outta Control

[irefky]

I understand what Mr. Montgomery is going through. Now, if he was the one who made a statement that he had two other officials removed due to their connection to another school, that is not right. He should not be allowed to make such decisions.

This may have sprung the entire altercation from the other official. Now, the other official should not have called him a "BOY." But he did, Mr. Montgomery state he tried to walk away but his manhood was threatened. My manhood only gets threatened when someone physically assaults me. Name calling is a psychological thing that can turn around if you use a little thinking.

However, I am white and cannot understand what being called "boy" feels like. However, I have been called a "cracker" but I laughed and went on. I am sure Mr. Montgomery felt threatened but as an official, you must be more professional, get the game in and fight your battle with the KHSAA.

It's sad this we have to deal with this in todays world, but things as racism will never go away. How can it, we have the black coaches association, mrs. black american pageant, and other countless organizations and if it were white groups, the white group would be called racist or discriminating. I think all groups should be united, that is who we are, Americans.

I hate that the black card is being played, but let me tell you, if this official called Mr. Montgomery a "boy," he should be punished. We have no place for this, I feel like all officials belong to the best fraternity in the world. It is black and white, that is the color of our shirts, but we have the same love for the game. I just hope this gets resolved.

Oh yea, levis at a game, it should not happen. KY, was a border state during our Civil War of 1861-1865.

Good luck

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I can only speak to whether or not I find Montgomery's version of events believeable and credible on its face. And based upon MY life's experiences and those of others I explicitly trust, I find Montogomery story plausible until otherwise contradicted. But that is just an opinion, it doesn't make me right or wrong.

This is my point of view exactly. This is the reason I took on the might JR in this thread. This is not about right or wrong here as it relates to our point of view. I know that we would all hope that be just walk away from situations like this, but Montgomery should have never been put in that situation in the first place. I do not care what Bailey's side of the story is, he has not a leg to stand on. If I am going to confront anyone that officiates, I will do it outside of the game, not go to their locker room to make a point. If Bailey gets banned, he got what he deserved. I also cannot speak to what should have been the ultimate result of both officials. I was not there to know if Montgomery did something wrong here. All I know is he had a right to be left alone in the locker room.

Peace

[D1RefnKY]

I know how to dress professionally for a game. I wear a shirt and tie to most games as other officials do as well. The reason that I was dressed this way (casual) that you all have seen in the picture in the C-J was due to the fact that I had spent ALL day with my attorney on Saturday. I was not dressed for the game because I did not think I was going to be granted the injunction in the first place. I was only hopeful that the judge would see my point of view and side with me. However, once the circuit court judge ruled in my favor, I had no time to go home as the injunction was granted at about 5:15 PM and served at 5:30 PM. The game was scheduled to be played at 7:00 PM. I did have my gear…as most officials ALWAYS have their gear in their car – ready to work.

When I stated that “I tried to prevent this,” that was to inform everyone (public) that I exercised options of calling Larry Boucher on Friday night, my attorney informed the KHSAA and my assigning secretary and Jerry Wyman (the person who removed me from the game – who I did not think had the authority to do so) on Saturday morning that we were considering legal action to keep me in the game. We were hopeful that they would put me in the game without legal action. However, they were insistent about keeping me out. Jerry Wyman stated, “Do what you got to do!” So we did…

I discipline kids everyday. I also listen to kids everyday when they have a dispute with a teacher or another student. I give them DUE PROCESS. Understand? I had to act quickly because the game was being played the next day.

I am an educator and I care deeply about the welfare of not only my students, but kids in general. I am not challenging taking me off the 1st game…there was little I could do about it at the time. But I still feel that I was within my rights to challenge being removed by someone who had no authority to do so and then the KHSAA backs up that decision AFTER the fact. Again, the visible part of the “altercation,” (as it is being called) was only after Jerry Wyman took me off both games. I was in the public view because I was attempting to go finish the second half. I was able and ready, but not allowed to finish my job. I disputed the removal with the words I stated in the previously submitted post.

One more thing...I have NO authority to have ANY official removed from a game. From my understanding, the assigning secretary switched the two other officials due to pressure. It is ironic that JTown won the KY state championship too despite having to play the regional final on Monday.

I do not want to air "dirty laundry" about our local association, but note this as well: Darrell Bailey is the president of the KBOA. Form whatever opinions you like regarding this.

A few posters have stated another fact, the courts have intervened in officiating in KY before. They (KHSAA) are mandated to bring blacks to the state tournaments. They bring only what they are mandated to bring...3. No more, no less...regardless if more than 3 are qualified. (3 out of 16)

Last thing, I am not looking for support or politicking for such. I just wanted those who were not informed of everything and were forming negative opinions about me to know my side of what happened. I read as you all do, with an open mind. I hope that if any of you all ever meet me or see me working a game that you will have pleasant thoughts of me. If not, so be it. You are right, we are a fraternity and I agree, this was a very unfortunate incident for all involved.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

JR

These 2 responses sound somewhat similar. First one is a response from you to me in another thread, I tried not to draw any conclusions but your response to JRutledge speaks volumes.

You decided a fellow official was guilty of racial discrimination without hearing his side of the story, or waiting to see if any more details are forthcoming from other sources. That speaks volumes about you also imo.

I expected the other poster to pull the race card. He always does. I can see that you are no different than he is.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You decided a fellow official was guilty of racial discrimination without hearing his side of the story, or waiting to see if any more details are forthcoming from other sources. That speaks volumes about you also imo.

I expected the other poster to pull the race card. He always does. I can see that you are no different than he is.

How can you NOT "pull the race card" in this situation? Bailey, I assume, is white. Montgomery is an African-American. My first reaction upon reading this story was: Wonder if he would've gotten pulled from the game if he was white?

Furthermore, if I were an African-American and someone called me "boy," I wonder how I would react. I'd probably want to punch the guy in the mouth. I would assume that "boy" is only slightly less inflammatory than the N-word. I may be wrong.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

How can you NOT "pull the race card" in this situation? Bailey, I assume, is white. Montgomery is an African-American. My first reaction upon reading this story was: Wonder if he would've gotten pulled from the game if he was white?

Furthermore, if I were an African-American and someone called me "boy," I wonder how I would react. I'd probably want to punch the guy in the mouth. I would assume that "boy" is only slightly less inflammatory than the N-word. I may be wrong.

Rich, the "race card" that I'm referring to is a poster inferring that someone is a racist because they don't agree with the other person's views. I've seen that one used here too many times, and now I'm seeing it from another source. That's the inference that BadNewsRef was trying to make of myself. That's just despicable imo.

From the story back on p1 of this thread, both officials were pulled from games, apparently for letting the dispute spill out into public view. As for the "boy" part of it, I agree with you 100% if the slur was made. All I have been saying is that until it is proven that Bailey actually did call Momtgomery "boy", then Bailey should be given the benefit of the doubt- as should anyone who is on the receiving end of any unproven allegations, no matter what color they might be. Similary, Montgomery has to be given the benefit of the doubt as to whether he tried to get 2 other officials removed from a previus game, which apparently started this mess. If the allegations are proven to be true, then Bailey should never be allowed to officate another game in Kentucky.

For the record, imo there were different phrases to this incident:
1) I've haven't commented yet on what started it off, I think. I will now. Bailey had no business entering that dressing room at half-time and starting the altercation. That's completely wrong. He deserves to be disciplined for that act alone by whoever is responsible for disciplining wrongful acts by officials in Ky. Hopefully, he will be. If so, I doubt that we will ever hear about the discipline though.

2) The argument in the dressing room is a separate act. During that argument, it is alleged that Bailey called Montgomery "boy". Until those allegations are proven or disproven, it is my opinion that Bailey should be given the benefit of the doubt, the same as any person who has been accused of anything without accompanying evidence to prove that accusation should be given the benefit of the doubt. That is all that I have been saying all along. Bailey is innocent until proven guilty. If Bailey is eventually proven guilty, then again- imo- his career as an official in Ky should be over. And...if the allegations are proven false, then Montgomery should have to answer for making those allegations also. Whichever way it turns out, there should be no discipline involved either way until the allegations are proven or disproven. This one shouldn't be difficult to investigate either. Montgomery's partners shoulda been in the dressing room and shoulda witnessed what went down. Get their stories.

3) The argument then spilled out into public view. I've already commented on that. Imo, both officials were wrong to let that happen. We don't know all the facts here also, but whoever convened that regional seemed to agree that both officials were wrong. They removed both officials from further games. The Appeals and Supreme court of the state of Ky apparently backed up the right of the convenor to make that judgement, even though we don't have the reasons as to why the courts made that decision.

Hopefully, someone is investigating this mess. Also hopefully, a racial complaint has been put in to the state of Kentucky, and that complaint will be investigated properly. That's the fair way to handle it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You can't see anything past your narrow-minded myopia. For your misinformed information I am 1/2 black, 1/2 white. You have comfirmed what I was beginning to think about you.

And how exactly how do you know what color I am?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You decided a fellow official was guilty of racial discrimination without hearing his side of the story, or waiting to see if any more details are forthcoming from other sources. That speaks volumes about you also imo.

I expected the other poster to pull the race card. He always does. I can see that you are no different than he is.

And since you are a big fan of evidence, this is part of a post from me the last time Race came up in this forum, the Massachesetts coach who claimed officials were racist.

The most likely exposure of any type of bigotry would probably manifest itself in how an official interacts with the coaches and players during times of communication. The coach in this particular article made very little reference to his interactions with the officials. His accusations came across as an emotional outburst in my eyes. He really said nothing to back up any of his claims.

Yep, thats me, pulling the race card again.

[house18]

I live in Louisville, KY and know both officials. I am also a referee. I know that Vic has always been treated unfairly by many of the white officials in Louisville. I just started refereeing a few years ago and I am not embarrassed to say that I am not at his (Vic’s) level in high school or college. Vic is at a very high level and many officials in the KBOA do not like him because of that. I always wondered why…

Vic has always been very helpful to me during the season and at summer camps. He also helped many white officials too. He truly loves refereeing. I later found out that in the entire state of KY that he is the ONLY NCAA Division I men’s official in the KHSAA! Can you believe that? With that being said, he faces a great deal of envy and flat out racism that comes his way because he referees at a level higher than 95% of the officials in Louisville and Kentucky for that matter. I will also say this; Vic is not shy, bashful, or timid. He speaks his mind and many do not like that either. He knows that some of these “guys” do not like him, but he moves forward.

I respect him not only for his ability on the court, but for saying enough is enough. I know that Vic would not have reacted as he did if in fact Darrell did not do what he claims. This may also bring to light the treatment and “closet” feelings that the white officials have in our association. They do not like Vic because he works harder and is simply better than them. They accuse him of being buddies with the coaches. I would think that he did not rise as high because he kisses ----. He made the most of his opportunities.

I remain hopeful that he will not only be allowed to continue, but that he will not let this damper his love for our craft. Darrell was wrong. Many in the KBOA know this too, but will not defend Vic. The KBOA majority resent the fact that a black man is higher than them. Plus, Darrell is the president right now. Hum...

Here is another question that may tie it all up: Why is Vic the target and why is he the ONLY black official in the state of KY in the KHSAA that officiates at this level? He is a role model official for not only new black officials, but anyone who wants to work hard to rise to a high level of refereeing.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by house18

Why is Vic the target and why is he the ONLY black official in the state of KY in the KHSAA that officiates at this level?

That's a good question, one that I've thought about.

Why would a man who is working D-1 basketball want to continue to officiate high school basketball, especially when it would seem that he faces such persecution?

[house18]

That's easy...he loves refereeing, plus hs ball in Louisville is very good and competitive. I have heard him say in casual conversation that he was not going to let them run him out. He helps a lot of guys who want it. Most however resent him for their "personal" reasons. I think they are simply jealous, but will never admit it.

KY is still a good ole boy's club society and Vic is not a member. But, like I said, he speaks his mind and they do not like that. Darrell obviously pushed him over the edge.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by house18

Here is another question that may tie it all up: Why is Vic the target and why is he the ONLY black official in the state of KY in the KHSAA that officiates at this level? He is a role model official for not only new black officials, but anyone who wants to work hard to rise to a high level of refereeing.

Here is another question. How much credibility should we give to a poster who suddenly appears for the first time very on this board,defends his buddy, and makes a lot of accusations against the other official. Then he throws in a few other vague and unsubstantiated claims? The answer would be "none."

Z

[house18]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Here is another question. How much credibility should we give to a poster who suddenly appears for the first time very on this board,defends his buddy, and makes a lot of accusations against the other official. Then he throws in a few other vague and unsubstantiated claims? The answer would be "none."

Z

You're right, but word of this stuff on this board has spread like wildfire. Do not be surprised if more new posters come out of the clear blue. You do not have to believe anything I post. Everyone will form their own opinions as they already have. My post is an opinion as well. Of course, as one poster stated, how can one PROVE any of this. It is all speculation...but we all know whatever it is that we WANT to know.

I do not think I made accusations against Darrell other than to say he was wrong. I think other posters have stated the same or similiar thing. Vic is not a buddy, but merely an acquaintance that has helped me in some capacity. Yes, I am coming to his defense because even though I was NOT there Friday night, I know some of the history that may have caused him to further react like he may have done. I have heard the talk in the KBOA first hand.

As far as the claims, reserach it yourself and see if there are any others right now...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Here is another question. How much credibility should we give to a poster who suddenly appears for the first time very on this board,defends his buddy, and makes a lot of accusations against the other official. Then he throws in a few other vague and unsubstantiated claims? The answer would be "none."

Z

I give him the same weight I would give anybody who comes on here to say "I know both officials and Darrell Bailey would do no such thing" or "I officiate in Kentucky and what House18 is saying about KY officias is not true in my opinion".

It's his opinion. There's no right or wrong to his opinion.

[BktBallRef]

Here's another question that's crossed my mind.

If a coach had called Vic a "boy," what would he have done?