OK, we're bored. Topic: Rules never called. Discuss

[Raymond]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

My vote is for the multiple foul. I've never called it, never seen it called, never even heard of it being called.

Any foul committed by the defense during free-throws up to the time that the throw-in after a made FT is touched on the floor or a rebound on a missed FT is touched is gonna be part of a false double foul. That includes defensive personal and technical fouls. That's the most common false double foul; happens all the time. [/QUOTE]

JR, the scenario you just described is a False Multiple Foul, which as you say is very common.

NCAA Rule 4 Art. 14. False multiple foul. A false multiple foul occurs when there are
two or more fouls by the same team such that the last foul is committed
before the game clock is started after it is stopped for the first, and such that
at least one of the attributes of a multiple foul is absent.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BadNewsRef

Any foul committed by the defense during free-throws up to the time that the throw-in after a made FT is touched on the floor or a rebound on a missed FT is touched is gonna be part of a false double foul. That includes defensive personal and technical fouls. That's the most common false double foul; happens all the time.

JR, the scenario you just described is a False Multiple Foul, which as you say is very common.

NCAA Rule 4 Art. 14. False multiple foul. A false multiple foul occurs when there are
two or more fouls by the same team such that the last foul is committed
before the game clock is started after it is stopped for the first, and such that
at least one of the attributes of a multiple foul is absent. [/QUOTE]Yup, shoulda put down "offensive" team. Just went back and changed it.

[mplagrow]

OK, I'll go along with the flop-as-a-T call, as being fairly rare. I've warned players, though. Multiple fouls. . . .never heard of one called. That would be a great one to p!ss off a coach! Has anyone called an illegal block on someone for standing with a foot on the boundary line since that rule was put in place?

[Raymond]

Originally posted by mplagrow
OK, I'll go along with the flop-as-a-T call, as being fairly rare. I've warned players, though. Multiple fouls. . . .never heard of one called. That would be a great one to p!ss off a coach! Has anyone called an illegal block on someone for standing with a foot on the boundary line since that rule was put in place?

Haven't made that call yet, but did have to 'T' up a coach b/c of that rule.

2004-05 season, 2-person crew. During pressing situation my partner (Trail) called a block in the backcourt. The play was on my sideline and from the Lead looking back I could see that the defender had a foot clearly OOB at the time of contact. Whether or not that's the reason my partner called a block I don't know and I didn't see the whole play to have an opinion.

When I went to administer the throw-in in the backcourt the coach was near me complaining about my partner's call mostly saying that her player was in position to take a charge; I told the coach I didn't know if her player was there or not, but I do know her foot was OOB at the time of contact which by rule would make it a block. The coach wasn't too impress with that rule nor my explanation of it and continued the discussion to the point where I had to end it with a Technical.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by BadNewsRef
[B During pressing situation my partner (Trail) called a block in the backcourt. The play was on my sideline and from the Lead looking back I could see that the defender had a foot clearly OOB at the time of contact. Whether or not that's the reason my partner called a block I don't know and I didn't see the whole play to have an opinion.

When I went to administer the throw-in in the backcourt the coach was near me complaining about my partner's call mostly saying that her player was in position to take a charge; I told the coach I didn't know if her player was there or not, but I do know her foot was OOB at the time of contact which by rule would make it a block. The coach wasn't too impress with that rule nor my explanation of it and continued the discussion to the point where I had to end it with a Technical. [/B]

Does anyone besides me see anything wrong with this?

[FrankHtown]

The only thing I'm unsure about is why did BNR administer the throw-in in the back court...

In Texas we don't do long switches, but perhaps in other parts of the country they do..

[Raymond]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
The only thing I'm unsure about is why did BNR administer the throw-in in the back court...

In Texas we don't do long switches, but perhaps in other parts of the country they do..

For 2-man, in my association, it's emphasized that we switch on all fouls.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by tomegun

Does anyone besides me see anything wrong with this?

Tome, please enlighten me. Don't worry about hurting my feelings, I'm pretty tough.

Seriously though, I always welcome a critique of anything I do on the court.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by BadNewsRef

Tome, please enlighten me. Don't worry about hurting my feelings, I'm pretty tough.

Seriously though, I always welcome a critique of anything I do on the court.

I can understand,a little, that you are looking into the backcourt on a play that isn't in your primary, but is your line. However, why did you explain a call that you admit not knowing about for sure? Why are you explaining someone else's call? Sure, you can get away with this sometimes so it isn't an absolute to say never do it, but in your case you didn't get away with it. I just don't think you should explain the call. Next, you will be explaining a T that someone else called. After that, more yelling occurs...in the official's locker room. Do you think the coach would have got the T without your explaination?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun

I can understand,a little, that you are looking into the backcourt on a play that isn't in your primary, but is your line. However, why did you explain a call that you admit not knowing about for sure? Why are you explaining someone else's call? Sure, you can get away with this sometimes so it isn't an absolute to say never do it, but in your case you didn't get away with it. I just don't think you should explain the call. Next, you will be explaining a T that someone else called. After that, more yelling occurs...in the official's locker room. Do you think the coach would have got the T without your explaination?

Tom, I don't agree with this criticism.

Badnewsref saw something that clearly justified the call. He told the coach, in so many words, that he can't explain his partner's call *except* that he saw what he saw, which by rule made the call correct.

No biggie, if the coach can't accept that then the T is on him. And if he's already that upset, do you think he would have calmed down if badnews just told him he needs to wait for the next opportunity to speak to his partner?

I don't.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by tomegun


I can understand,a little, that you are looking into the backcourt on a play that isn't in your primary, but is your line. However, why did you explain a call that you admit not knowing about for sure? Why are you explaining someone else's call? Sure, you can get away with this sometimes so it isn't an absolute to say never do it, but in your case you didn't get away with it. I just don't think you should explain the call. Next, you will be explaining a T that someone else called. After that, more yelling occurs...in the official's locker room. Do you think the coach would have got the T without your explaination?

Didn't feel like I was explaining my partner's call. Like I said, I told the coach I didn't know whether player was there in time or not. But I did clearly see that the contact occurred with her player's foot OOB. The coach argued the rule itself and ended the converstion with "that's garbage" in conjunction with a visible wave-off. But I could be wrong in my perception on whether or not I was explaining my partner's call. JMO, but I think the coach was in search of a 'T' in that situation.

But there is no "Next, you will be explaining a T that someone else called." Never happened and never will. I'm very adept in telling coaches they are talking to the wrong official when they whine in my ear about a partner's call.

Also, not much chance of being yelled at in locker room...the advantages of being 6'5"/260lbs

[FrankHtown]

I don't have a problem in two person with the Lead helping out if there is a press going on in the backcourt. Actually, the Lead needs to help out! The Lead can't leave his partner with no help.

Now, maybe it would have been better if you didn't switch, so the coach can ask your partner directly what happened..

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I expect the least called infraction is hitting the ball with a fist. I've never heard of anyone ever calling it, never heard it brought up in meetings, never heard the rule even mentioned anywhere.

I saw this happen this season, where a girl tried to punch the ball out of an opponents grasp, but a technical foul was called for throwing a punch, instead of calling a violation for punching the ball.

Didn't you say this was the dumbest rule on another thread? I guess you're not a big fan of this rule.

[tomegun]

This is what he said: "When I went to administer the throw-in in the backcourt the coach was near me complaining about my partner's call mostly saying that her player was in position to take a charge; I told the coach I didn't know if her player was there or not, but I do know her foot was OOB at the time of contact which by rule would make it a block. The coach wasn't too impress with that rule nor my explanation of it and continued the discussion to the point where I had to end it with a Technical."

Let me just take a flyer on this and ask, what if this isn't the reason his partner called the block? Now the explaination (that is what it turned out to be) is taking the coach down the wrong path and the end result is a T. Don't get me wrong, I'm the last person to tell you not to give someone a T, but I'm wondering if the T would have been avoided or delayed by telling the coach that your partner would be there shortly to explain.
Also, I don't have a problem with someone helping in a two-person game. However, I don't think this was helping with pressure as much as it was watching his line.
Dan, is this something you are in the habit of doing when your partner has a block/charge call and you end up right in front of the coach? I just don't see myself explaining like this a lot. This explaination could go for any call.

BNR, I have yet to work with someone big enough or mean enough to not ask them WTF were you doing "consoling" (that is what it looks like most of the time) that coach after I gave a T. Call me crazy.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun


Dan, is this something you are in the habit of doing when your partner has a block/charge call and you end up right in front of the coach? I just don't see myself explaining like this a lot. This explaination could go for any call.

BNR, I have yet to work with someone big enough or mean enough to not ask them WTF were you doing "consoling" (that is what it looks like most of the time) that coach after I gave a T. Call me crazy.

I am in the habit of NOT ignoring a coach's question. That goes double if I'm standing right next to him. If I have something to say I'll say it, if not I won't. You don't like that? Tough.

I am not in the habit of taking someone's comment on a particular play and using it to assume that is how they behave always. Something you seem to enjoy.

I am also not in the habit of ever yelling at partners, or being yelled at by partners. Luckily I run into very, very few of these types but the ones who feel the need to yell will be told to stop. Call me crazy. :shrug: