Do you make the call?

[BktBallRef]

You're coming in on the tail end of a discussion between Larry and myself, Trigger. Your assumption is incorrect.

[mplagrow]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

REALLY!?! To quote another poster on this board...

Wasn't the OP AFTER the game, not at 'a critical moment?'

[BktBallRef]

If the T is called, the winner of the game could change. You don't think that's critical?

Guys, I don't think the call should be made either. But Larry chastised me in another thread because I agreed with the official who failed to call a FT violation on the offense during the first of two FTs in the Carolina-Duke game. That's where I got his quote from. I curious to see why he thinks one call should have been made but not the other.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Mar 9th, 2006 at 11:29 PM]

[TriggerMN]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
You're coming in on the tail end of a discussion between Larry and myself, Trigger. Your assumption is incorrect.

Noted. Thanks.

[LarryS]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
If the T is called, the winner of the game could change. You don't think that's critical?

Guys, I don't think the call should be made either. But Larry chastised me in another thread because I agreed with the official who failed to call a FT violation on the offense during the first of two FTs in the Carolina-Duke game. That's where I got his quote from. I curious to see why he thinks one call should have been made but not the other.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Mar 9th, 2006 at 11:29 PM]

Fair question...no lets see how this logic flys.

If I see someone violate the lane (or the arc restrictions) druing a game I know they are guilty. How much intelligence does it take to look down? Besides, those rules have been in place for years.

Popping the jersey being considered an unsporting act and subject to a T is a new rule this year. Given that (1) the player may not actually be taunting the other team...it was in an arena with fans of each team on all sides...and (2) in the thrill of the moment he may have forgotten the new rule...I pass on the T this time.

Not to try to divert attention from my response, but would this be a good thing to cover in the pregame (not that they would remember) or mention to the coaches as the game winds down? Just something quick as they are breaking their huddles after a time out..."Coach, remind you players about the new jersey restrictions. I'd hate to see a Tech decide this."

Hmmm...

BTW, did I wiggle out suffeciently or do I still need to plead guilty to having a double standard?

[mplagrow]

I don't think that the official who calls a T on a player for the jersey action AFTER THE GAME is going to work many more big games. Or do you think I'm wrong? Passing on that call is NOT the same thing as passing on a call when the game is in play. It's quite simple. You just don't see it. So far, nobody has said, "I'd make that call!"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by LarryS

Fair question...no lets see how this logic flys.

If I see someone violate the lane (or the arc restrictions) druing a game I know they are guilty. How much intelligence does it take to look down? Besides, those rules have been in place for years.

Popping the jersey being considered an unsporting act and subject to a T is a new rule this year. Given that (1) the player may not actually be taunting the other team...it was in an arena with fans of each team on all sides...and (2) in the thrill of the moment he may have forgotten the new rule...I pass on the T this time.

BTW, did I wiggle out suffeciently or do I still need to plead guilty to having a double standard?

Nope, your logic doesn't fly and you can't wiggle out of it either.

You want the rules called as written- no exceptions. Well, as I've already cited before from the POE, it's a technical foul by rule for a player to pop his shirt at the fans. It doesn't matter what fans either; it's a "T". There ain't no wiggle room according to the rule book either.

If you're going to pass on that call, but still insist that a different rule must be called as written, then I'd sureasheck have to say that you're applying a double standard, Larry.

[BktBallRef]

Double standard.

Whether it's facing the opposing bench and popping the shirt, grabbing your nut, or saying something inappropriate, it's all unsporting. There's nothing new about that.

I asked this question in the other trhead but I don;t know if you answered. If you saw a player with his toe touching the block on a FT, would you call the violation or simply remind him of where his foot shouldn't be?

[LarryS]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Double standard.

Whether it's facing the opposing bench and popping the shirt, grabbing your nut, or saying something inappropriate, it's all unsporting. There's nothing new about that.

I asked this question in the other trhead but I don;t know if you answered. If you saw a player with his toe touching the block on a FT, would you call the violation or simply remind him of where his foot shouldn't be?

I'll raise my hand and plead guilty. Guess that's another sign that I am not perfect...as a human and an official.

As for your question...let's see. I almost always say before passing the ball to the shooter, "Hold your spots, watch the paint, [number of shots]". If a player who has his foot touching or on the paint moves it, and from my position I cannot be certain he is on the paint...I MAY verify when I administer the second shot (if we are shooting 2). If I am trail...I may take a step in to get a better look. If it is the first of a one-and-one or the only shot and I know he is on the paint...I would call the violation. As an example...I have called a violation on a shooter who, when he went onto his toes during the shot, covered half the line in front of him. Again, it is not hard to look down.

Guess I am basically saying I need to be absolutely certain they are violating. If there is any doubt, I hold my whistle...if no doubt, I blow my whistle. There have been times when I wasn't sure and when I moved a little I could see the player was not on the paint.