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-   -   Do you make the call? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/25380-do-you-make-call.html)

LarryS Tue Mar 07, 2006 05:14pm

Here’s the situation from a high school regional championship game. Even though my daughter’s school lost…I can honestly say it was an excellently call game. In Texas, at the beginning of the year we were told that when player pops his jersey toward the other team (puts his thumbs under his shoulder straps and hold the jersey out away from his chest) that is a T for taunting. With that in mind…

Home team hits two FTs to go up be 2 with 11 seconds left after the visiting team erased an 11 point 4th quarter deficit. Visitors advance the ball to their front court and call time. After the inbound play, the shot from the free throw line is partially blocked. There is a scramble for the ball, visiting team secures it but cannot get a shot off…clock expires…place starts going nuts. I happen to look right at one of the officials who his looking at the table (apparently to see the “thumbs up” sign being given that all is OK). Between me and the official, there is a player from the home team who is facing the visiting bench and “popping” his jersey. Odds are good, but not 100%, that he saw what I saw.

Question…if you were in that situation, would you see the “taunt” and call the T? Official either did not see it or passed. Given the circumstances…I think “I would not have seen it”. :rolleyes: Visiting coach didn’t react or say a word…just congratulated the other team and left them to their celebration.

mick Tue Mar 07, 2006 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS
... there is a player from the home team who is facing the visiting bench and “popping” his jersey.
Gonna see a lot of that in the coming weeks on TV.
High school players learn from College players.
If the NCAA officials allow it, it will remain a problem.

Your sitch was post game and one doesn't "really" know if the kid was showing his jersey to an older brother or to an opponent.

There's not really good place to go with this, except to go away.
mick


Rich Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS
Here’s the situation from a high school regional championship game. Even though my daughter’s school lost…I can honestly say it was an excellently call game. In Texas, at the beginning of the year we were told that when player pops his jersey toward the other team (puts his thumbs under his shoulder straps and hold the jersey out away from his chest) that is a T for taunting. With that in mind…

Home team hits two FTs to go up be 2 with 11 seconds left after the visiting team erased an 11 point 4th quarter deficit. Visitors advance the ball to their front court and call time. After the inbound play, the shot from the free throw line is partially blocked. There is a scramble for the ball, visiting team secures it but cannot get a shot off…clock expires…place starts going nuts. I happen to look right at one of the officials who his looking at the table (apparently to see the “thumbs up” sign being given that all is OK). Between me and the official, there is a player from the home team who is facing the visiting bench and “popping” his jersey. Odds are good, but not 100%, that he saw what I saw.

Question…if you were in that situation, would you see the “taunt” and call the T? Official either did not see it or passed. Given the circumstances…I think “I would not have seen it”. :rolleyes: Visiting coach didn’t react or say a word…just congratulated the other team and left them to their celebration.

I'm outta there.

WhistlesAndStripes Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Your sitch was post game and one doesn't "really" know if the kid was showing his jersey to an older brother or to an opponent.


Using the jersey in this way, no matter who you're showing it to, it's still a T.

That being said, if I'm the official, the only thing I'm going to see here is the table official giving me the thumbs up, and then I'm getting the hell outta dodge.

mick Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Your sitch was post game and one doesn't "really" know if the kid was showing his jersey to an older brother or to an opponent.


Using the jersey in this way, <U>no matter who you're showing it to, it's still a T</U>.

That being said, if I'm the official, the only thing I'm going to see here is the table official giving me the thumbs up, and then I'm getting the hell outta dodge.

Dunno. Where is that an automatic? Still looks like judgement.

GW and West Virginia game ...maybe.
A player ripped off his jersy after the game. TV saw it.
Where was the "T"?
mick

tomegun Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:35pm

I'm not even looking for a thumbs up. A timeout was called at the end of the game and I think everything could have been checked then. After the game is over I walk, with a purpose, off the court.

I know someone who had a game (JC) that was getting kind of dirty towards the end. He felt like the crew should have waited on the court to make sure a fight didn't break out during the handshake. I don't agree with this at all. Again, when the game is over I'm gone. I'm not going to avoid anything but if something happens it will more than likely have to be between me and the locker room.

Jurassic Referee Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Your sitch was post game and one doesn't "really" know if the kid was showing his jersey to an older brother or to an opponent.


Using the jersey in this way, <U>no matter who you're showing it to, it's still a T</U>.

That being said, if I'm the official, the only thing I'm going to see here is the table official giving me the thumbs up, and then I'm getting the hell outta dodge.

Dunno. Where is that an automatic? Still looks like judgement.


It's automatic. POE 1A in this year's rulebook- <i>Players are increasingly using their uniforms in unsporting ways. Examples include: Holding the uniform out from the chest area to display the team name <b>to opponents or fans</b>"</i>.Iow, it doesn't matter whether he was showing his jersey to his older brother or an opponent; both are technical fouls, as per the POE.

Whether you actually call it though isn't automatic.

mick Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Your sitch was post game and one doesn't "really" know if the kid was showing his jersey to an older brother or to an opponent.


Using the jersey in this way, <U>no matter who you're showing it to, it's still a T</U>.

That being said, if I'm the official, the only thing I'm going to see here is the table official giving me the thumbs up, and then I'm getting the hell outta dodge.

Dunno. Where is that an automatic? Still looks like judgement.


It's automatic. POE 1A in this year's rulebook- <i>Players are increasingly using their uniforms in unsporting ways. Examples include: Holding the uniform out from the chest area to display the team name <b>to opponents or fans</b>"</i>.Iow, it doesn't matter whether he was showing his jersey to his older brother or an opponent; both are technical fouls, as per the POE.

Whether you actually call it though isn't automatic.

Sounds like a decent subject for another thread:<LI>Which post-game antics are considered automatic Technical fouls?
mick



JRutledge Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:55pm

How fast to the locker room?
 
Buuubye!!!!

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Mar 09, 2006 06:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
I'm not even looking for a thumbs up. A timeout was called at the end of the game and I think everything could have been checked then. After the game is over I walk, with a purpose, off the court.

I know someone who had a game (JC) that was getting kind of dirty towards the end. He felt like the crew should have waited on the court to make sure a fight didn't break out during the handshake. I don't agree with this at all. Again, when the game is over I'm gone. I'm not going to avoid anything but if something happens it will more than likely have to be between me and the locker room.


If he wants to stick around to see if a fight breaks out means only one thing: He must officiate soccer.

Because like you, I am out of there.

MTD, Sr.

brianp134 Thu Mar 09, 2006 08:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
I'm not even looking for a thumbs up. A timeout was called at the end of the game and I think everything could have been checked then. After the game is over I walk, with a purpose, off the court.

I know someone who had a game (JC) that was getting kind of dirty towards the end. He felt like the crew should have waited on the court to make sure a fight didn't break out during the handshake. I don't agree with this at all. Again, when the game is over I'm gone. I'm not going to avoid anything but if something happens it will more than likely have to be between me and the locker room.


If he wants to stick around to see if a fight breaks out means only one thing: He must officiate soccer.

Because like you, I am out of there.

MTD, Sr.

I agree with both of you, I am heading towards the locker room. I know the official that Tomegun is talking about, I wouldn't hang around either in that situation.

Rich Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
I'm not even looking for a thumbs up. A timeout was called at the end of the game and I think everything could have been checked then. After the game is over I walk, with a purpose, off the court.

I know someone who had a game (JC) that was getting kind of dirty towards the end. He felt like the crew should have waited on the court to make sure a fight didn't break out during the handshake. I don't agree with this at all. Again, when the game is over I'm gone. I'm not going to avoid anything but if something happens it will more than likely have to be between me and the locker room.


If he wants to stick around to see if a fight breaks out means only one thing: He must officiate soccer.

Because like you, I am out of there.

MTD, Sr.

I watched two friends of mine work a regional final on Saturday and it was one of the best HS games I've seen. Ended 72-70 and my friends went off the court. About 15 seconds later there was almost a brawl and all I could think while watching the coaches trying to break it up was: THAT'S why you get the heck off the court on the final horn. Who would WANT to see that?

mj Thu Mar 09, 2006 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
I'm not even looking for a thumbs up. A timeout was called at the end of the game and I think everything could have been checked then. After the game is over I walk, with a purpose, off the court.

I know someone who had a game (JC) that was getting kind of dirty towards the end. He felt like the crew should have waited on the court to make sure a fight didn't break out during the handshake. I don't agree with this at all. Again, when the game is over I'm gone. I'm not going to avoid anything but if something happens it will more than likely have to be between me and the locker room.


If he wants to stick around to see if a fight breaks out means only one thing: He must officiate soccer.

Because like you, I am out of there.

MTD, Sr.

I watched two friends of mine work a regional final on Saturday and it was one of the best HS games I've seen. Ended 72-70 and my friends went off the court. About 15 seconds later there was almost a brawl and all I could think while watching the coaches trying to break it up was: THAT'S why you get the heck off the court on the final horn. Who would WANT to see that?

Shame on those parochial schools!

BktBallRef Thu Mar 09, 2006 09:22pm

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS
Given the circumstances…I think “I would not have seen it”. :rolleyes:
REALLY!?! To quote another poster on this board...

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS
What other rules do you ignore during critical moments of a game?

TriggerMN Thu Mar 09, 2006 09:30pm

Re: Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS
Given the circumstances…I think “I would not have seen it”. :rolleyes:
REALLY!?! To quote another poster on this board...

Quote:

Originally posted by LarryS
What other rules do you ignore during critical moments of a game?

You must call about 50 3-second violations in every game if you're going to follow the rulebook that closely.


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