Technical AFTER the Game

[MajorCord]

Originally posted by chrs_schuster
The reason I do not buy this story, what official in his right mind after a game like this stand around to converse with fans and parents! After a game I'm like a black and white blur to the lockeroom. With the comment they were getting there jackets after the game, WHAT? Who wears there jackets after halftime. Why would you penalize the kids on what the fans said AFTER the game. GET IN, GET DONE , GET OUT!!!!!

I have been doing private schools and public school JV for three years now. In that time, I have never been offered a "lockeroom" to run to. In this area, JV officials arrive in uniform, we remove our jackets and they are left at the scorer's table. When the game is over, we go to the scorer's table, get our jackets and leave.

For whatever reason, the visiting team received a "T" after the game was over (I don't know if it was justified or not). I do know the home team hit both free throws to force the game into overtime. I do know that the visiting team's coach initially refused to bring his team out for overtime, but then changed his mind. The purpose of my post was to get feedback on how long a coach had to make such a decision. Was the official right in saying that the visiting coach had already made his decision and that the game was over - home team wins in forfeit?

[Rich]

Originally posted by MajorCord

This was a game between two small private schools. The way I understand it, the officials were confronted as the two teams were shaking hands at mid-court. The officials were probably retrieving their jackets from the scorer's table.

The jackets should go into the locker room at halftime and the officials should be running off the court when the horn sounds, getting a thunbs up from the table. If there was a confrontation, it's the officials' fault for being around.

I've seen officials "watch the handshake" and don't understand the point. Aren't there adults (coaches) supervising? Isn't the game OVER?

I could see this happen, though. In baseball, we call those types of umpires OOOs.

[MajorCord]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

The jackets should go into the locker room at halftime and the officials should be running off the court when the horn sounds, getting a thunbs up from the table. If there was a confrontation, it's the officials' fault for being around.

I've seen officials "watch the handshake" and don't understand the point. Aren't there adults (coaches) supervising? Isn't the game OVER?

I could see this happen, though. In baseball, we call those types of umpires OOOs.

Varsity does it the way you describe, JV does not (not exactly sure why). Maybe I'm showing my ignorance, what are "OOOs" in reference to umpires?

[Adam]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

The jackets should go into the locker room at halftime and the officials should be running off the court when the horn sounds, getting a thunbs up from the table. If there was a confrontation, it's the officials' fault for being around.

I've seen officials "watch the handshake" and don't understand the point. Aren't there adults (coaches) supervising? Isn't the game OVER?

I could see this happen, though. In baseball, we call those types of umpires OOOs.

Rich, you're assuming the officials had a locker room. While it should be the case, it's not always. Also, I'll agree they should have just left, but I can see how this could happen.
According to the story, they warned the crowd to drop it. Maybe they couldn't leave. Maybe they were surrounded. Or maybe, they were just confrontational because of the atmosphere of the game and their emotions got the better of their judgment.
Also, maybe they just forgot to get their jackets at halftime (I've done that) and had to get them after the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by MajorCord
I know that an official has the authority (and the responsibility) to call a "T" if necessary even after time has expired. I was curious about how the official handled the refusal of Team A's coach to bring the team back out. How long would a coach have to make a definite decision? 30 seconds? I guess initially he said no, then changed his mind, but the official said that the coach had already made his "no" decision first and couldn't change it now.

Once the coach tells you "no", he's not gonna play that's it. He's already made a definite decision. He doesn't get to change his mind after that. End of story. Forfeit the game to the other team and git the hell outa there.

[Rich]

Originally posted by MajorCord

I have been doing private schools and public school JV for three years now. In that time, I have never been offered a "lockeroom" to run to. In this area, JV officials arrive in uniform, we remove our jackets and they are left at the scorer's table. When the game is over, we go to the scorer's table, get our jackets and leave.

For whatever reason, the visiting team received a "T" after the game was over (I don't know if it was justified or not). I do know the home team hit both free throws to force the game into overtime. I do know that the visiting team's coach initially refused to bring his team out for overtime, but then changed his mind. The purpose of my post was to get feedback on how long a coach had to make such a decision. Was the official right in saying that the visiting coach had already made his decision and that the game was over - home team wins in forfeit?

Where do you change your shoes?

I've never been at a school where a room wasn't available. Varsity officials get a room and I've worked JV and have asked for a place to change.

Maybe I'm spoiled because I don't work JV/Freshman games anymore, but I would insist upon a secured room to put my stuff. Every school I've been to the JV officials share the room with us. Some choose to come dressed and not use the room, but if a confrontation then happens, i see it as their fault.

[MajorCord]

Where do you change your shoes?

I've never been at a school where a room wasn't available. Varsity officials get a room and I've worked JV and have asked for a place to change.

Maybe I'm spoiled because I don't work JV/Freshman games anymore, but I would insist upon a secured room to put my stuff. Every school I've been to the JV officials share the room with us. Some choose to come dressed and not use the room, but if a confrontation then happens, i see it as their fault. [/B][/QUOTE]

JV's here in my area of North Carolina wear their shoes out of the gym. We are also expected to remain in the gym until the Varsity officials are on the court.

[Rich]

Originally posted by MajorCord
Where do you change your shoes?

I've never been at a school where a room wasn't available. Varsity officials get a room and I've worked JV and have asked for a place to change.

Maybe I'm spoiled because I don't work JV/Freshman games anymore, but I would insist upon a secured room to put my stuff. Every school I've been to the JV officials share the room with us. Some choose to come dressed and not use the room, but if a confrontation then happens, i see it as their fault.

JV's here in my area of North Carolina wear their shoes out of the gym. We are also expected to remain in the gym until the Varsity officials are on the court. [/B][/QUOTE]

You wear officiating shoes outside? In the elements?

Expected to remain on the court? Jeez, that's horrible. They may as well put bullseyes on you.

Where I live, the JV officials coming in to the locker room to shower is our cue that it's time to take the floor.

[Dribble]

If, for whatever reason, the officials do have to stick around longer than normal, then I can definitely see the coach(es), players, fans, etc. approaching the officials despite a victory.

It would take QUITE a lot to give a T at this point (despite the provision being in the rules). I think the easier and more professional route would be to simply write up the team for these actions and let the school board deal with it.

Think about what reaction you'd have in the overtime period if the coach did bring his players back onto the court. Team A now thinks that they're screwed and legit fouls are going to be questioned, more T's follow, etc.

That being said, I have a feeling that this coach and team won't be going up to officials after games anymore!!!

(I kinda wanna T up a team now after a game just for the cajones factor! hehe... )

[WooPigSooie]

First of all, this has obviously happened before because this situation is addressed in the case book.

I dont know about you guys, once I have had a tight game and that buzzer sounds, all I am thinking about is how I can through post-game traffic faster so I can get in the lazyboy with the remote control.

If the T was warranted and I am of the coach for the team that was ahead at the end of regulation, I am tracking down the fan and giving them a swift kick somewhere that hurts.

Sadly, some officials are on a power trip and will call things like this unwarranted,thus giving good officials (like ourselves) a bad name.

It sounds like the host school needs to look at a proper protocol to assure things like this dont happen. My association will not agree to send officials to games if the host school does not designate a proper escort to and from the court and out to their vehicle (AD/police/really big weight lifting coach)

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by MajorCord
I have been doing private schools and public school JV for three years now. In that time, I have never been offered a "lockeroom" to run to. In this area, JV officials arrive in uniform, we remove our jackets and they are left at the scorer's table. When the game is over, we go to the scorer's table, get our jackets and leave.

To show up in your uniform is unprofessional where I live. We do have officials that do that, but they stay at the lower levels. I have never been to one school where I did not have a locker room. Now all of the "locker rooms" might not be very big or very good places to change, but they provide you some place to change. If there is a JV or Prelim game before a varsity, 9 times out of 10 the JV officials dress in the same room with the varsity officials. I live in Illinois where snow and freezing rain are very common at this time of year. There is no way someone could come from outside and guarantee that their uniform would not be soiled by the elements.

If no other reason I think as a safety measure all officials need a locker room for the end of games. We need a place where we can go and talk and discuss events of the game. If I were you I would raise this concern to your local association or state. If this is a true story I am sure this happens a lot more if JV officials are coming to the games dressed.

If you come dressed and leave, how do you learn to become a varsity official?

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WooPigSooie

If the T was warranted and I am of the coach for the team that was ahead at the end of regulation, I am tracking down the fan and giving them a swift kick somewhere that hurts.

Sadly, some officials are on a power trip and will call things like this unwarranted,thus giving good officials (like ourselves) a bad name.

The initial post said "fans and/or players confronted the officials. In these types of cases, I never judge the officials without hearing their side first. Just ain't right.

[chrs_schuster]

Here in Ohio, we never come dressed to a game. There is a few that do, but they will never advance, because that shows no profesionalism. I always have a place to change, if not I ask for a place to change. Majorcord you guys sound a little bassackwards down in N. Carolina. JV games in Ohio are just like Varsity games with 1 less ref and the announcements other than that, the same. I think you should have a talk with your association to make sure you have a place to change at every location and a place to CHANGE y our shoes. How do you converse with Varsity officials after game to better yourself? In Ohio we are supposed to stay at least until halftime of Varsity game to converse with officials for feedback.

[Oz Referee]

You guys should come and referee in Australia!!!

Except at the professional levels (National Basketball League - NBL) most stadiums do not have locker rooms for officials. In most cases you either come dressed ready to referee, or else they have 3 toilet/change rooms - one for each team and one general one for the public, which referees use.

In addition - FIBA rules state that the referees must check the scoresheet after the completion of the game. This means that they usually are required to hang around after the final buzzer for at least a couple of minutes.

[MajorCord]

Since I started this thread I have had my integrity questioned (by those who thought I had made this story up - I did not) and now I have been called unprofessional (because in this area JV officials come to the game dressed in uniform - oh, the horrors!). In retrospect, I think I will give up officiating.

Nah! I enjoy it too much! Can't wait until next season. Maybe I'll get a lockeroom!