Varsity player dunks during JV halftime

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JCrow
Chuck - "Go Durfee"!

I'm in Western MA, but if you're talking about Fall River, my dad graduated from Durfee (sometime in the 1830's, I think).

[deecee]

...not that my 2 cents are worth a crap what if you add that player into the book and hes a senior?

wouldnt this mean a forfeit for the JV team? using an ineligable player -- also some states have participation rules if players are in the book for jv and var...

this seems like a bees nest that shouldnt be messed with -- but a forfeit will save you from working a second half -- still get paid so I say do it T em up and add his name to the book and hope hes not a senior because now you would have to be the first ref ever that would need a police escort out of a JV game...

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by deecee
...not that my 2 cents are worth a crap what if you add that player into the book and hes a senior?

wouldnt this mean a forfeit for the JV team? using an ineligable player -- also some states have participation rules if players are in the book for jv and var...

this seems like a bees nest that shouldnt be messed with -- but a forfeit will save you from working a second half -- still get paid so I say do it T em up and add his name to the book and hope hes not a senior because now you would have to be the first ref ever that would need a police escort out of a JV game...

Since this is clearly a thread that has veered off into madness - that includes everyone! - what about your blanket assertion "the first ref ever that would need a police escort out of a JV game..."

Anyone ever need a police escort to get out of a JV game?

[BayStateRef]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
There is an interpreter's conference call this weekend with Peter Webb. Maybe one of them will bring this topic up for discussion.

I sent Peter an email with this situation, so he will be aware of it. I will let you know if I hear from him before your call.

[Adam]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Since this is clearly a thread that has veered off into madness - that includes everyone! - what about your blanket assertion "the first ref ever that would need a police escort out of a JV game..."

Anyone ever need a police escort to get out of a JV game?

Don't know that I needed one, but I was given one once. Soph boys game that ended with a nasty scrum started by a visitor. Visitor player earned 2 flagrant Ts, 2 home players each earned a flagrant T. Game mgmnt provided a couple of off-duty cops to walk us to the vehicles. Probably overkill, but given the tension with the home coach, I was glad for it at the time.

[deecee]

of it happening in some varsity games where game management escorts the ref to their room and wait to take them to their car

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BayStateRef
I sent Peter an email with this situation, so he will be aware of it. I will let you know if I hear from him before your call.

That's awesome. I would appreciate whatever info you get.

I also sent an email regarding the question of whether you can run the endline after a double foul. I'll post that answer if I get one.

[TussAgee11]

This would be really bizarre, but lets say a manager does it.

If you say a Varsity player is a member of the JV team (in my mind he is, because they normally practice together). There seems to be confusion on that.

So what say you about the manager (hypothetical of course, I was a manager and if I could dunk I would have played!)

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by BayStateRef
4-34-4 says a team member is "a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player." 4-34-2 says bench personnel are "all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statistician(s)."

Our board interpreter said it should be a T for the dunk and the official should have the scorer add the varsity player to the score book. Then it is a second T for the administrative penalty.

And just how is a VARSITY player "eligible to become a player" on the JV team?

[Rich]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

Since this is clearly a thread that has veered off into madness - that includes everyone! - what about your blanket assertion "the first ref ever that would need a police escort out of a JV game..."

Anyone ever need a police escort to get out of a JV game?

Shoot, I needed a police escort from a MIDDLE SCHOOL game once when I lived in Tennessee.

[David M]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

That's awesome. I would appreciate whatever info you get.

I also sent an email regarding the question of whether you can run the endline after a double foul. I'll post that answer if I get one.

I sent an e mail to the interpreter of Board 27 to see what he thinks this should be handled.

[Junker]

I have had a school administrator excort me out after the police escorted a fan out. Fan was yelling at me after I showered about a JV game in which my partner threw 3 T's on the home team, of which I think all 3 could have been prevented. The fan didn't get to see the varsity game.

[HawkeyeCubP]

"a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player." 4-34-2 says bench personnel are "all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statistician(s)."

Our board interpreter said it should be a T for the dunk and the official should have the scorer add the varsity player to the score book.


Good stuff here. I'm with deecee and canuckrefguy.

My 3 cents:

Manger dunking: A manager who is not "in uniform" does not meet the definition of a "player" - "a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player."

Varsity player: The officials are not responsible for determining eligibility anywhere I've worked, and I would assume that's the case across the country in NFHS games - and IMO, they SHOULD not do so. That responsibility falls onto the team's school administration and coach, I believe. Following the different jersey/warm-up logic, he's not a member of the JF squad. --

Eligibility, cont'd.: "Our board interpreter said ... the official should have the scorer add the varsity player to the score book." I would never instruct the scorer to ADD anyone to the book, and I'd be surprised if there is any remotely-specific lanquage that would support doing so in an NFHS publication. What if the varsity player had already played that night somewhere else? You are then FORCING the JV team to add an ineligible player. Also, I'm guessing all state associations have eligibility rules regarding senior V players participating in lower contests, regardless of the number of quarters they play per day. Long story short (too late): this person is not eligible, and does not meet the definition of a "player."

Fun things. I'm done.


[Edited by HawkeyeCubP on Feb 8th, 2006 at 04:05 PM]

[Adam]

In most areas I'm aware of, adding a player isn't going to affect his eligibility unless he actually plays. It's generally defined by quarters played. Playing time is restricted by quarters played. So, adding him to the book in this case isn't going to affect that. And if he's ineligible for whatever reason, the team won't have to forfeit the game unless he actually enters the game. Having him in the book means nothing in that regard.

Also I'd be surprised if even most states have a rule about seniors participating at the JV level. That's what the quarter restrictions are for. I'd be surprised if more than a handful of states went beyond the quarter limits.

I'm not stating either way whether this should be done, only pointing out that eligibility really isn't an issue.

[Edited by Snaqwells on Feb 8th, 2006 at 10:05 PM]

[Adam]

Let me add one question to the whole debate.

What's the penalty if a coach dunks during warm-ups?